Transcript Below

Erica D'Eramo 0:06

Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers Podcast. Today we will have a special guest joining us from the business world. His name is Cliffe Killam, and he recently took the helm as Chairman of the Board of the Laredo Chamber of Commerce. And he has quite the story to share with us.

So Cliffe, welcome to the podcast.

Cliffe Killam 0:38

Thank you, Erica, for for having me. Excited, excited to be here.

Erica D'Eramo 0:41

Yeah, we appreciate it. So we really want to explore some of the stories that you have to share with us. But first, I wanted to get a little background on you. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Cliffe Killam 0:56

Sure, yeah, happy to share that. I'm the president of Killam Development and Killam Oil Company. And we're a family owned, private family owned business. And I work here with my my father, we're based in Laredo, Texas. And we've been in business for over 100 years, and I'm the fourth generation. And my brother also works here as well in our field operations. And, yeah, we, you know, in terms of a little bit about me, I sort of have a little bit of a different background for the oil and gas industry. I have an undergraduate degree in English literature from Boston University, after I got out of college, worked as a field hand and kind of doing manual labor out there in the oil field. And said yeah, this is kind of a chance for me to kind of put the books down and kind of get my hands dirty. And that was a great experience, met some great people that way. And then I ended up going to the University of Texas, getting a master's degree there in a program called Energy and Mineral Resources, which at the time was housed in the petroleum engineering college and later got moved to the Jackson School of Geosciences. And that program is basically an interdisciplinary program that pulls from all the different disciplines that might be helpful to have a career in the oil and gas field. And from there, I moved to Houston, worked for a company called Wood Mackenzie, and did research and consulting there, and then got a job for a company called Harrison Lovegrove. The first day I started working there, we were, it was announced that we were acquired by Standard Chartered Bank, so became part of their corporate finance group. And we are one of the called top three, international M&A for in the upstream oil and gas business. And after that, did that for a little while, and then finally came home to, back to Laredo, and have been working here for about a decade.

Erica D'Eramo 3:00

Wow. So that's quite the journey. And I have to imagine that that journey has probably been through a lot of kind of male dominated spaces, a lot of oil and gas that I'm hearing. So that's what makes this kind of story that we wanted to talk to you about all the more interesting. So you took the helm as Chairman of the Board of the Laredo Chamber of Commerce, and you made a bit of a splash with some of your leadership decisions there. So tell us a little bit about that.

Cliffe Killam 3:35

Sure. I, I'm assuming you're referring to, I ended up appointing 10, 10 of my Board of Director appointees were all, were all female professionals, female leaders. And yeah, so really, really excited about that. You know, you know, basically every every chair gets an opportunity each year to, to make 10 appointments. And so I got my, my daughter was born on September 18th. And I was made the chairman on October 1st. And so we're, you know, so my, that was sort of in the back of my mind, and I went to the to our office over there and sitting sitting at the table with some of the staff and we were talking about, well, you know, what are some of the things I have to do now as chair and so we also have to go through these appointees. So I said, "Well, why don't we go, you know, kind of work on that?" And so as we're going through, you know, in my mind, I was trying to find, you know, people that were, you know, highly qualified professionals that also represented a diverse, diverse elements of our local economy. And so that was really what I was trying to do. And so I started kind of listing the names of people that I had worked with in some capacity on other boards are professionally and people that were highly accomplished. And so, you know, getting this cross section of the logistics industry and, you know, the real estate industry and, you know, healthcare and, you know, other other elements of, of the economy. And so, you know, we, we kind of looked kind of, as we kind of listed the names there, they just so happened to all, all six of them were were, you know, female leaders, and it wasn't really, you know, just sort of happened to shake out that way. And then that's where I kind of paused. I was reflecting on that, and I kind of looked up, and in the board room, there, you know, we have the, the Laredo Chamber has been around for over 100 years, and they have all the, you know, all the photographs of all the different previous chairs. And I asked, "Well, you know, how many, how many women have been chairs in the past?" And, you know, it's only been like, maybe, three, three or so, and, and then I was thinking about my daughter, and thinking about how she needs more female, you know, I want her to have more, you know, female role models in her life, and, and, and more, but, you know, more so. And so, yes, then we're there. Then I said, "Well, you know, in terms of the next four appointees that we have to make, you know," I said, "has anyone ever appointed 10 women before in our history, to this, to the Chamber board?" And so they said, you know, "No, that's never happened before." And I said, "Well, let's, let's make it happen." And so then I kind of asked, the staff just said, you know, you know, "I also don't want to be blinded, I don't want it to just be people that I know, you know, are there other other female leaders that are supporting the organization in some capacity on a grassroots level, that are really putting the time in that, you know, maybe I just happened to not know them very well. And that you think would be, you know, strong additions." So they made some additional recommendations. And that's kind of how we came up with our, our 10 appointees. And it's, it's really, you know, had a big a big impact. And, you know, even more so than that I, you know, could have imagined, and I can elaborate on that as well, if you'd like.

Erica D'Eramo 7:34

Yeah, absolutely. Let's explore that a little bit. But first, I want to understand why, why was it important to you to increase female representation? You kind of mentioned role models, etc. But was there anything else in that decision?

Cliffe Killam 7:53

You know, I wanted to, you know, I really, there was, there's primarily two things in my mind at the time. One was, I was thinking about my daughter, and you know so, she was sort of an inspiration for me to, and I wanted, and then in turn, use that so that she could be inspired. And I thought it was important, you know, when I was thinking, you know, 5, 10, 20 years down the road, you know, I hope that there's going to be more female chairs, photographs of them, you know, that had previously led the Chamber in the years to come. And so it's important for me to help to, you know, create some of those, you know, pathways. And then in addition, I also wanted to signal to the marketplace, that we were going to be doing things differently. And so, this was one way to basically say, we're going to we're going to do things there, you know, this is this is at the same thing I would say, too is, I mean, I, to certain degree, I, to be candid, I think I maybe didn't fully appreciate the impact that this would have in the community and at large. You know, I guess it's, you put 10 men on there, people wouldn't think twice. And so for me, I said, well, put ten women, I mean, it's, it's, I didn't really fully appreciate, you know, how that would make people feel in a positive way. And and really, it was, it's become a learning experience for me as I've had different female leaders come and confide in me and talk to me about different situations. And so it's really, it's not something that I think people often openly talk about, but I guess because of this, it really created a some additional conversations that helped me to appreciate I guess, how much of an impact it had.

Erica D'Eramo 9:57

Yeah, that's that's really kind of moving actually. So I, I'm interested in this, in this kind of selection that you went through, you spoke a little bit about your selection criteria, but I'm interested in how you think it might have differed, in this case, from how board members have been selected in the past that you ended up with a slate already kind of starting out with six members, or six selections that were already female leaders. So how do you think your selection criteria in this go around, may have differed?

Cliffe Killam 10:38

Well, you know, I don't want to I mean, what I would say is, I can share with you how I approached it, and, and I can't really speak to, you know, how other people approached it, but I can share with you mine, which was, it was important for me, to, to, the Laredo Chamber of Commerce is meant to represent as a non, it's a nonprofit that represents the business interests of, of its local economy, of the local, you know, the community that it represents. And so whatever is that kind of cross section of the economy, you want to find different folks that represent those different lines of businesses in there. So I made sure we had representation, I wanted to make sure we had representation in the logistics industry, and we in the real estate industry, I wanted to make sure that we had various educational institutions represented, higher education, as well as on a high school level that we had the, you know, hotel, hospitality industry represented, financial services. And, and so those are some of the different, you know, different industries that we had. And so I just picked different people and, you know, that either, you know, own their own business, or had been in a leadership role within a company. And, and that was sort of the criteria, and many of these ladies have, you know, I had worked with in some capacity in other nonprofits, or professionally and people that I respected and, and I thought, you know, they would add a lot of value, and really were, you know, got things done. And so that was, that was what I was looking for: people that can help. You know, you as the chair, you're, you're only there for, at least at the later Chamber of Commerce, you're only there for one year. And so I wanted to find people that would help me be more effective as a leader.

Erica D'Eramo 12:50

Yeah, that sounds like a really robust set of kind of selection criteria. So I'm, I'm curious, you mentioned that there's been a really positive impact, positive feedback. And I do want to explore that a bit more. But first, have you been confronted with any resistance around this decision?

Cliffe Killam 13:12

Um, you know, I, I wouldn't say that there was any resistance, I think was generally received extremely positive. I would say that there's maybe even a handful of people that approached me that it's not that they were resistant to it, but maybe they had a harder time putting it into, into context or into you know, perspective, and kind of understanding the decision. And so in certain ways, they've kind of said things that, you know, under, underminded, you know, sort of that decision, in a way, and again, I don't think there was any kind of, you know, malice per se, I think sometimes maybe it's just a generational thing, or it's, they just have a hard time understanding it, so, there were some comments that we're, you know, kind of oriented towards, you know, you know, sort of saying, oh, aren't aren't you, you know, you know, sort of having all these women around you, you know, isn't that such a nice, you know, sort of, you know, sort of more of a, I guess, I guess you say sexist way, you know, kind of oriented that way. And again, I think, you know, these are kind of typically older, you know, older people, I guess just sorta maybe had a hard time and I've had and it's not just from men, I've also heard from women. Very similar, you know, type of way of describing it, and I just think maybe, I don't think, you know, maybe I just sort of see you know, and see the best people, so I just I don't necessarily think they're coming in with a negative way of looking at it. I think it's just something that's a little harder for them to, you know, it's more of a generational type thing.

Erica D'Eramo 15:14

Yeah. And normalizing kind of seeing women in positions of power is, is part of the journey, I think, right, that we normalize it. And sometimes when I hear you talk about this, this story, or this, this journey that you guys have been on, it makes me think about this quote from Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and she said, "When I'm sometimes asked, 'When will there be enough women on the Supreme Court?'", basically, and she says, you know, "When there are nine." And people are shocked, and then she recounts, you know, but there, there have been nine men plenty of times, and no one ever raised a question about it. So when we normalize just seeing all men, all women, and nobody blinks an eye at it, that's when we kind of know that we've reached equality, perhaps, but just normalizing seeing women in positions of authority and power, I think, is part of the journey.

Cliffe Killam 16:11

For sure, for sure, that's, you know, we're you know, I mean, again, I go back to my daughter, you know, you know, so I mean, I want her to be this, you know, kick ass, you know, person, and let her, you know, I want her to do all the, you know, all the things that she wants to do in life and accomplish, and I think, you know, feel empowered, and to do the things that she wants to do with her life. And so, you know, I, like you said, I mean, there shouldn't be any boundaries or limitations for that. And so, I think that, you know, in order to, you know, create the world we want to live in, we got to do something about it now, you know, and so, and that's just kind of one small way, they just sort of, as you say, kind of normalize things are kind of, you know, it shouldn't be, I mean, in many ways, it shouldn't be a big deal, you know, and so and so I hope that over time that that's, you know, and, and also, I mean, I, you know, Laredo is a, I mean, it's got its own distinct culture and values. And so there's a little bit of machismo here and stuff. So, you know, I think also that kind of, you know, just sort of, you know, change, changing things up a little bit, and like you said, you know, normalizing those kinds of things.

Erica D'Eramo 17:23

It's interesting, because I think it's, it's actually pretty consistent across the US that purchasing power in many households is, in many cases held by women. Interestingly, and so, you know, what, to what extent did women's participation in the economy kind of play into your decisions?

Cliffe Killam 17:53

Um, you know, not so much. I mean, I, you know, I was really looking for accomplished executives, and, or people that represented other institutions that had leadership roles in different institutions. So, you know, like educational institutions, or maybe other nonprofits and to build those relationships. So it was, it was, it was more about, you know, finding, finding people that, that really were effective in, in making, making things happen. So that's, that's really what I was kind of looking for is that was kind of the main criteria for me was, you know, finding effective managers, leaders, people that are involved in the community, that are going to put the time in to volunteer, and ultimately, what, this is a volunteer organization, that they're going to be committed to helping us be better. And, and so, you know, this organization focuses on a lot of it is very much oriented towards government affairs. And it's on policy issues on a local level, a state level and on a federal level. And so we know we've written like, as an example, the Laredo is the largest, largest inland port in the country. $300 billion worth the trade coming through here. 18,000 trucks on the road, but Laredo also, you know, but under the previous administration, the bridges here were shut down for non-ess, quote, unquote, non-essential travel. And so you know, Mexican nationals coming to the US is a big part of our economy in terms of tourism and dollars spent, but we wrote letters in support saying, hey, look, this is really affecting the whole border region, and this is really important to us or when USMCA was happening, you know, write, you know, writing letters on that, having meetings on that. So those are the kinds of different issues, you know, with, with the, with the COVID happening now, you know, we're writing letters to and having meetings with our mayor and county judge and our governor, and talking about, you know, hey, you know, this is affecting bars and restaurants and hospitality industries and these other businesses, and, you know, what you're calling non-essential, you know, our people's livelihoods. And so, really just, you know, our job, you know, I think of the the mission of the Chamber is to, is to listen, support and advocate for our members and the business community. So that's, that's, and that was, so that's kind of, I was looking for people that were going to help, help me fulfill that mission.

Erica D'Eramo 20:55

Yeah, so really action oriented?

Cliffe Killam 20:58

Yes.

Erica D'Eramo 21:00

So what benefits have you seen so far, what impacts have you seen, I guess, of the, this kind of fresh slate of, of appointees?

Cliffe Killam 21:10

One of the things that I'm super excited about, and I was not expecting was that you the, the women that I appointed on there, you know, they got super fired up, and kind of, you know, it kind of really galvanized them. And so now, we're creating a Women Leadership Program as part of the Chamber. And so I'm really excited about that. They are, they're bringing in the other female members that are part of the Chamber. And so what they're doing is, they're looking at creating mentorship programs for female professionals, they're looking at also doing a speaker series to bring in different, you know, female leaders and thought leaders to come into town and speak to a female audience, but also a broader, you know, broader audience as well, but already, you know, kind of thematically on on some of those different issues. And then also looking at creating some fundraising events as well around recognizing female business leaders, and community leaders. So this has sort of emerged, it's this kind of really, you know, this, this import, now important part of the Chamber, and I'm absolutely thrilled about it, because it's, it's, it's my hope, and I think that will be is that this is now going to be a part of what we do in perpetuity. And so we're going to work really hard to maintain that. So I hope that, you know, my daughter will be able to be, you know, mentored through this program, you know, you know, 20 years from now and be able to, you know, go to some of these different, you know, lecture series, and all these other things are happening. So we're, you know, they've really, it's been really embraced by the membership. And it's actually helped us to recruit more female members and professionals. And so it's just this this virtuous cycle has been created. So it's really, it's really been very cool.

Erica D'Eramo 23:27

That's awesome to hear. That's really heartening. I think a lot of times when we hear stories like this, or just any effort towards increased diversity, and representation, there's always the challenge of like, is this a philanthropic effort? Are we doing this to be nice to women? And so I wanted to hear a little bit more about that, like, what are the actual business impacts of this? And it sounds like this is not just to be nice to women, right? This is actually improving the accessibility of the Chamber of Commerce and improving the operations. Have you seen any examples of kind of the way you've done things previously, versus the way you're doing them now changing?

Cliffe Killam 24:16

Well, I think that yeah, I mean, I would not I, you know, I, I'm, I'm, you know, I really just wanted the best, the best people to be part of the organization. And that's really, for me, that's the only thing I really kind of mattered, it sort of ended up happening that this sort of thematically, you know, kind of came together. And it's been really great to see that, you know, as I mentioned, you know, this Women Leadership Program has been created. I would say that, the, they're the, the, a lot of the female board members are, I think, just really fired up and really vested in there. And I think it also has inspired some of the, you know, male board members too and got them excited to see, hey, we're, we're changing things up. So I think, you know, overall, it's really just kind of helped to create more commitment and more more drive into getting things done and, and, you know, like many businesses and nonprofits across the country, I mean, it, COVID has been, you know, devastating. So, I think at a time when there's been a health crisis in our country, in certain ways, you know, economic crisis, and, and, and has also affected, you know, families and people in so many other ways, the isolation and so forth. I mean, I think this has really, you know, given us a sense of focus and purpose. And so I think people are just really excited to make a difference through the Chamber. And that's really been one of my goals is to, you know for the Chamber to become a really, not just some kind of a ribbon cutting organization, but to really be a platform to effect meaningful, positive change. And so that's, that's really been what I've been, you know, really focused on trying to deliver on.

Erica D'Eramo 26:27

Yeah, that, I mean, that's very inspiring, you're making me want to sign up for my local Chamber of Commerce. So hopefully, you know, we, this podcast gets heard by other people who wouldn't previously consider that and would, might think to themselves, like I could be a benefit to that type of organization, and I just never thought about it before. So thank you for that. So I'm interested in what the transition onto the board looked like, a lot of times, I think, and maybe, you know, either confirm or correct for me, um, organizations, like any other type of business are often self perpetuating with sort of bringing in informal contacts or, you know, people that you knew from your you know, your, your clubs, or your school or your friends or your net, your close network, people who look like us, act like us, are in the same circles as us. And sometimes it can be a bit self perpetuating. And that's how we end up with maybe like the boys club mentality of people that already are in our circle getting appointed to some of these roles. So in this case, you went kind of beyond your circle, and brought in new people who maybe didn't have that informal network. Have you found that there were any sort of trans, there was any transition support that was helpful for people coming into this that might not have sort of been operating in this circle before?

Cliffe Killam 28:12

You know, um, not really, I would say that, not really, I would say that, you know, all these women that were appointed, I mean, they're all very accomplished and experienced, and they've been on, you know, boards before and have been in, you know, high, you know, in executive type. So, if anything, I'm asking them for advice, you know, so, you know, I'm saying, you know, this is, you know, this, this is sort of a new, newer thing for me. I mean, I, this is the first time I've been chair of a, of a nonprofit. And so, so yeah, I, no, I kind of come in with a sense of more of humility and asking them, you know, you know, you know, how can I, you know, run the meetings more effectively, or how can I, you know, you know, how am I doing, you know, and how are we doing and kind of, you know, trying to chart out these different, you know, milestones and things we want to accomplish as an organization. So, you know, more than anything, I think it's really me, you know, just kind of talking to them getting their feedback to be quite, you know, candid and so, you know, the, really that's, you know, there's been probably one or two people on there that are, though my appointees that maybe are a little bit less experienced. But, so, you know, I wanted also to strike a balance. I mean, I didn't, you know, I wanted to also have some women in there that may be, you know, they were sort of, you know, rising stars, if you will, and so, you know, they you know, give put them, you know, give them an opportunity to to you know, get involved, rather than kind of, you know, sort of having to, you know, maybe takes longer someone's, you know, life, whatever to get into some of these different organizations on a senior level. So. So there was a little bit of that, and I and I, and I'm assuming that, you know, there's a little bit of internal mentoring there and so forth, but they're also holding their own too. And they're bringing fresh, you know, fresh ideas, to, to the meetings and to kind of some of the different initiatives that we're working on. So it's been, it's been really gratifying. So if anything, I've been trying to listen and learn from them. Actually,

Erica D'Eramo 30:46

Yeah. Wow, that sounds great. And that internal mentoring can be so valuable as well.

So I'm, I'm curious soon what you think the barriers to entry were before? Like, why is this the first time that you've had a board of? Or that you've had a full slate of appointees that included so many women?

Cliffe Killam 31:11

You know, I'm you know, it's hard for me to, to answer that, you know, I think that I don't want to cast any aspersions or anything like that, or make any assumptions. But I mean, I think that I'm sure it's, as you mentioned, I mean, sometimes people make choices that they're more comfortable with, or maybe they're more used to, or this kind of cultural things, I guess, sometimes. But, you know, I really wasn't focused on, you know, why people made those decisions in the past, I was really kind of focused on, on on the future and helping to, to make a positive impact, you know, going forward. So that was really kind of the mentality I was trying to take and just just try to be, you know, positive and really try to make a make a strong impact there.

Erica D'Eramo 32:19

Yeah, that does sound very positive. So do you think that this will be a turning point, kind of for a bit of sustainable change or representation? Do you think that maybe this won't be such a rare occurrence going forward?

Cliffe Killam 32:35

Well, I hope that's the case. I mean, that's what you know, that's what I was so encouraged, by this effort to create this new Women's Leadership Program, because, you know, the idea is that that could be coming in on an ongoing program, so there's their, you know, our, our board members, and our members are putting a lot of time and energy into creating a mentorship program and, and bringing in speakers and looking at, you know, recognizing different female leaders, so, you know, putting in sort of the foundation for that, so that this becomes a strong part of the Chamber, going forward, and, and therefore, kind of institutionalizing that in a way where, you know, it will be, it's just going to be a normal part of, part of the, of the nonprofit.

Erica D'Eramo 33:36

And love that, yeah, I love that idea of kind of institutionalizing, putting in the systems in place, so that it's not just left up to our human brains that are obviously subject to our own biases or heuristics. So I think that's great.

Cliffe Killam 33:54

Yeah, I think, you know, sometimes it's, you know, just to help you create that, you know, consistency, and sometimes people don't necessarily, I mean it's not that they, it just helps to reinforce that, you know, like you said, it helps to put it, you know, kind of structurally into, into the organization.

Erica D'Eramo 34:12

Yeah, absolutely. So, were there any, you know, final thoughts that you wanted to close with? And we really appreciate your time here, and this has been really insightful. So, any any last, like leaving thoughts that you want to leave us with?

Cliffe Killam 34:29

Well, you know, I think I, you know, like I said, it's been very insightful for me to, to you know, make these choices and then seeing you know, how how it was received in the marketplace and, you know, it's really helped to help me kind of enlighten, enlighten me more. I've had a, I've had an employee, come up to me, and tell me how much, it really meant to her and it really got her excited. And also, you know, wanted, wanting to join the Chamber. And she talked to me about her sister who's a doctor in Austin and how, you know, how people always think she's the nurse, you know, or she's the, you know, assistent in some way. And so, you know, I think that that's, you know, those aren't, those aren't conversations prior to this that anybody normally had with me or, you know, shared, shared those kind of things with me. And so I wasn't really as aware of some of the different challenges that that that women may face. And so, for me, it became a really powerful experience, you know, to have different women, you know, confide in me and, and talk to me and share different stories and how it was, you know, how that decision was so meaningful to them. And I don't think I really fully appreciated the impact until afterwards. And so for me, it's been very moving. And, and so I've really wanted to sort of embrace it. And, you know, like I said, I want to be the best leader that I can be, the best father that I can be, the best husband that I can be. And so I mean, I think that, it's, you know, this is hopefully it was, it's just one on one small step. And so, and I hope that I'm really excited to see what future things happen in the Chamber and excited to help you know, you know, be a part of that.

Erica D'Eramo 36:47

Yeah, that sounds just so impactful and valuable, as a business leader, because this is one part of your life, but you're, you're a business leader, in the other parts of your life, as well. So to have access to those perspectives, just seems so valuable and enriching as you go through your career. So I'm curious for anyone listening to this, who thinks, oh, I might want to get involved in my own Chamber of Commerce, what would you recommend? And where can people find more information about the Laredo Chamber of Commerce?

Cliffe Killam 37:22

Sure, yeah. If you can just go to the laredochamber.com and you can look, you know, look us up there. And then you can also always Google the US Chamber of Commerce, and most most communities, most cities have a Chamber of Commerce. And yeah, I definitely recommend looking into that. There's a lot of great programs there to help champion you know, the business and and also get involved in, you know, different policy issues that affect businesses. And it's a, it's a great, it's a great American institution, and nonprofit. So yeah, definitely encourage everyone to, to look into it and get involved.

Erica D'Eramo 38:11

Awesome, thanks, Cliffe. For our part, we appreciate our listeners tuning into this and they can find any information that they're looking for regarding Two Piers on our website as usual, which is twopiersconsulting.com. And then they can follow us and our stories and future podcasts on any of our social media platforms. So Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, we're on on all of them. And yeah, thanks for spending some time with us today. Cliffe, we really appreciate it.

Cliffe Killam 38:46

Thanks so much, Erica. Enjoyed the conversation.