In this episode, a friend of Two Piers, Robbie Leigh, joins us. Robbie is an empowerment coach who helps introverted, highly sensitives own their strengths and step into their power. Together, we explore the concept of adaptability. This trait, so often revered as a strength and skill, can also present its challenges in terms of identity and sustainability.
For more info on how to work with Robbie, check out her website at https://www.robbieleigh.com/.
Join us to explore this fascinating concept and determine how you plan to engage with adaptability.
Transcript below":
Erica D'Eramo 0:10
Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers Podcast. I am your host, Erica D'Eramo. And today, we have another guest joining us to talk about adaptability in the workplace. And this, this conversation is going to be a little bit less like a Q&A and a bit more like a conversation.
So we've got Robbie Leigh joining us. Robbie is a certified professional coach. Her specialty is in helping HSPs to own their gifts, speak their truths and step into their power. So thank you for joining us for this episode. And we're happy to have you on.
Robbie Leigh 1:01
Thank you so much. Super happy to be here.
Erica D'Eramo 1:05
Yeah. So Robbie, tell us a little bit about yourself, and maybe what the term HSP means. And you know, how you kind of got in this crazy world of coaching?
Robbie Leigh 1:18
Absolutely. Yeah. So HSP is highly sensitive person. You may have also heard the term high sensory. So these are, folks, we process the world really deeply. And it's a little different for each person. But we think very deeply about things, we feel very deeply about things. Often, we experienced the environment in very deep, profound ways as well. And I, gosh, coaching, I think has been a calling for me my whole life, I did it without realizing I was doing it, I was constantly the person that people came to, for help and advice to be listened deeply to. But my career first took me into as a teacher first. And then I went into training and development over in the corporate arena. And then from there, I was kind of tapped to help with more human resources, specific things, I was business partner for a while. So I really loved working with teams and leaders and individuals on how to first of all, get along well in the workplace, to hear each other, to utilize people's strengths, you know, and being in human resources, I got really a frontline, a front seat to the challenges that that people face. Plus, I was a woman in the workplace. And I faced some challenges there myself. And the, the thing that always fed me was coaching. Whenever I had coaching moments with individuals or with leaders, it was like, "I'm doing the thing I was meant to do." So, you know, I made the transition, I got certified and now I do private clients and it, the work feeds me. It's just like, "Ah, this, this is it. This is what I'm here to do." And I'm really, really grateful that I get to do it.
Erica D'Eramo 3:26
Yeah, that resonates a lot. I think, I think I had a somewhat similar path. And although in different arenas, but kind of got to that same idea that this work with people and seeing them really bloom into their full selves was just where my calling was. So yeah, I love that, I love that we share that.
Robbie Leigh 3:52
Yes, me too.
Erica D'Eramo 3:54
So let's see, how did we get on this topic of adaptability in the workplace? I think we were initially talking about some some of the work that I was doing on authenticity and authentic leadership and sort of exploring what I've sensed as like a tension sometimes between being authentic and surviving. And yeah, and then we kind of got on this topic of like, "How do we show up? What does that mean? What's good, what's bad?"
Robbie Leigh 4:31
I mean, you framed it so well, like, on the one hand, there's authenticity. And on the other hand, there's survival. Right? Yeah. In the middle somewhere, is adaptability - some overlapping edges there. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 4:46
Right. Yeah. And I think this topic like so many others, adaptability, you know, and authenticity are particularly interesting to folks like us because, we are trying to help the folks who maybe don't fit the mold in many cases. And so these are the subjects that either get bandied about a lot, whether in wellmeaning advice or How-To books or whatever. Or that are just like disproportionally impacting some of those folks that we love to work with. I don't know. That's my thought on it. What what are your thoughts?
Robbie Leigh 5:32
Yeah, 100%. When you tell when you tell someone who is disenfranchised from the systems and the patriarchy that they need to adapt, what are you really telling them? You're telling them that who they are? And the way they are? Isn't okay, so they're the ones that need to change?
Erica D'Eramo 5:56
Yeah. And yet, what, you know what, one of the things that occurred to me, when we were chatting earlier was I generally see adaptability as being like a good trait to have. And so there's this, again, an interesting tension there about when is adaptability good? When is it maybe not so good? Like what questions should we be asking ourselves to, to understand when this is helpful or harmful? And I feel like there are probably a lot of, not just women, but anyone who has shown up and not fit the mold that's had to ask themselves that question, right? At what point is this helping or hurting?
Robbie Leigh 6:42
Absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 6:44
So how do you... When you think of the term adaptability? Like what does that term mean for you?
Robbie Leigh 6:51
Well, I'll tell you, I initially have the same positive response to that word, it's like, oh, and I don't know if that's because it's been fed to me that way or, but that there are some, there are some genuine positive things about adaptability, I feel. Because, you know, we interact with all kinds of people in all kinds of different environments. And for me, I love the ability to connect with people. And, and adapting to an environment can help you survive. So I mean, if we look at just pure, like evolution, like adaptability is a positive thing for the species. Right? So I think there are some... my initial response to the word is exactly what you said, it's a very positive one. Then as I start sitting with it, and really digging in, there are some parts about it that maybe I don't love as much. But that doesn't negate the positive aspects.
Erica D'Eramo 7:53
Yeah, I feel like my feelings around adaptability are probably somewhat similar to my feelings around resilience in that it's a term that gets used a lot, generally in a positive way. And yet, sometimes it's used as a way to celebrate what is actually like, maladaptive behaviors or just like, harmful, harmful patterns that we celebrate because they release us from changing the system. If everyone is adapting, and everyone is quote, unquote, resilient, when what we really mean is probably like, traumatized in some cases, but then we don't need to change anything, then everything is fine. Just, it's put on the individual right? That bootstrap, tough, resilient, adaptable, resourceful. What we really mean is like, you don't have enough resources. You have to, you can't be your whole self. You don't have like a, the support and the I don't know, and your basic needs being met. So we call it, we call it resilience, but it's enduring instead of being resilient, right? It's just like getting through. So maybe that's part of why I feel a bit complex. I feel complexly about this.
Robbie Leigh 9:22
So. Much. Yes. That's what I want to say to what you just said. The part about it that really gets me, you just nailed it there: that we put the onus on the individual, and then we praise the ones that can somehow, you know, twist themselves into being part of the system being seen as a part of the system in a way that doesn't disrupt the system that allows us to keep going, then we praise those people, and I don't want to take away, it's like wow, yeah, you did accomplish something amazing. And! The system is harmful to people, it is harming people. And so when we're just focusing on this, "Yay, celebrate!" we're not seeing, "Oh my gosh, this person has been traumatized. And they've had to deny these parts of themselves and they don't have the resources they need." That, "Yeah, you! You survived the system, you're amazing!" Let's look at the system, and let's start making the system work for more people. That's what I would love. Let's adapt the system.
Erica D'Eramo 10:30
Right.
Robbie Leigh 10:30
Let's adapt the system to help people.
Erica D'Eramo 10:33
Yeah, and not just because it's like, the moral, ethical thing to do, like it is that, and also, because it is ridiculous that we have so many of these arbitrary barriers to opportunity and barriers to people fully contributing their thoughts and ideas and their gifts and, and accessing happiness and fulfillment. Because they're spending so much of their energy, just conforming and feedback,-looping and adjusting and adjusting and adjusting. When really, in many of these cases, with the adaptability stuff, like you'll never really do it, fully. Like you might actually succeed, but you'll still be "that woman who made it to CEO," or you'll still, you know, there's still, you're still trying to win somebody else's game, in that case.
Robbie Leigh 11:31
Yeah. And at what cost? You know, what's going on inside?
Erica D'Eramo 11:37
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 11:37
You know, what was that cost in there?
Erica D'Eramo 11:40
Yes, which is where I think some of this also ties into the conversations that, like you and I have had about neurodiversity, and how we see some of that. And so I was recently reflecting on the term, you know, "highly functioning." And for folks who are watching conversations in the neurodiversity realm, like that term has very much fallen out of favor, "highly functioning," and it's kind of seen as ableist terminology these days, as has Aspergers, btw, because there's a lot of Nazi history behind Asperger, so if you don't know about that, go Google it. But I think that what we really mean when we say "high functioning" is not disrupting the system. Right? Like,
Robbie Leigh 12:29
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 12:29
We don't know what's, what the internal state is for many of these folks. And now that we understand more about camouflaging, masking, like what the toll is that's happening. But if you didn't call, you know, if you didn't have to go to detention, or if you didn't have like, an intervention in school, if the, if you got straight A's, then you were highly functioning and you weren't going to be addressed. And it didn't matter what was actually happening on the inside, right? It's like that friction that you cause with the system.
Robbie Leigh 13:05
That's right. But if your external, if the external, you isn't disrupting, then great, then you're fine.
Erica D'Eramo 13:14
Yeah, you're fine, we're fine. Everybody's fine.
Robbie Leigh 13:17
Everybody's great. And they also often use that as evidence, "Well, this person can function, why can't you?" and again, putting it on to the onus on the individual: there's something wrong with you, instead of "Oh, maybe we need to relook at this system."
Erica D'Eramo 13:35
Right. I think the other piece that ties in for me is around, and I think this is how we originally got to this conversation when we started talking about HSP and being highly sensing, I think there's like a lot of input that happens there's a lot of intake of information data, and particularly for little girls and women. We are taught to, to constantly be adapting to that right? To taking that feedback, adapting, taking the feedback, adapting, adjusting, adjusting. And so I don't, know there's there's like a connection there, too, when you are taking in so much data and constantly trying to synthesize it and adapt to all the different ways that it's almost like a perfect situation for the wiring to just kind of melt down or, or just like overheat.
Robbie Leigh 14:41
Yes, overheat is a great, yeah, I mean, I'm picturing it in my mind like, yeah. Yes, because there's just so much to take in and so many pieces of data. I need to be like this and I have to remember that and remember to smile always and don't forget to do this and you know, like, all the points of data to constantly think about, and when they are at odds with your inside, right? All of that just creates this extra amount of stuff you have to constantly be aware of and thinking about in order to just "be," in order to just exist in a space. That's exhausting. Yeah, it takes a toll.
Erica D'Eramo 15:28
Yeah, it takes a toll, too when you are seeing it, and others are not. Right? So if you can sense that, like your boss is unhappy because of some way that like the eyebrow twitch happened or something. And you're like, "What's wrong?" And they say, "Nothing. Why are you so sensitive?" Or like, "Everything's fine!" And you're like, "No, it's not! I know, it's not fine." Right? Yeah, get into this, like, "Am I crazy? No, I'm not crazy." Well, it's not till later in life, maybe, when you realize like, no, you're not crazy. There is information here. Some people just aren't aware of it or don't know how to communicate it.
Robbie Leigh 16:08
That's right. But yeah, yeah. Because then that creates that loop of doubting yourself, "Oh, maybe I'm, oh, maybe I'm not really sensing that?" Oh, well, yeah. Well, I am too sensitive. what is wrong with me? Again, it all gets, right, internalized negatively, instead of being able to say, no, no, I'm picking up some information that maybe you are not. And it's it's valuable,
Erica D'Eramo 16:35
Right. 100%. Yeah, like the I think that's a skill, at least for myself that I'm still building. And that I didn't really understand till later. This curiosity piece, that, probably thanks a lot to coaching training, right? About really fostering curiosity to like, what, and understanding emotions as data and looking a bit more objectively at like, "Why do I feel like this person is angry? What is the true story here behind it? What is the data that I have?" And then how do I want to approach it and resolve it? So from the work that you do with clients, what are your thoughts? I mean, do you see, I guess, what are your thoughts on like, how this might impact the various types of people we work with, this concept of adaptability?
Robbie Leigh 17:30
Well, what I see, honestly, when clients come to me, they're usually at a point in their career where they have been doing their best to adapt and do what is expected. And I, you know, put that a little bit in bunny ears, but they've done their best to go into a workspace and check all the boxes and do what's required of them. And on some axis, or on many axies, it's not working for them anymore. Like either, it's taken a toll on them, so they're having some physical challenges or emotional distress, like just exhaustion, all of that. Also, just this deep sense of dissatisfaction. Like, because what's happening for them, is because they're not able to bring really who they are to the workplace. And like your example, is, is an excellent one, when you are talking about, "Oh, I noticed, I know that my boss is unhappy." But then that being dismissed, for example, there's not a space for that in that workplace. So it's, it's that times a million, right all these little times where it's like, "Oh, my knowing and my experience, and my expertise is downplayed." Or not celebrated. Or I just have to spend so much energy, maybe it, maybe I am celebrated, but, but it's by spending a lot of energy and doing things this certain way, which is extra hard for me. Like it, again, it just comes at a cost. And so when people come to me, they are like, "I gotta find something different. I gotta figure this out differently." And so we work a lot on figuring out okay, what is most important to you, because sometimes people will go into a job and they'll, because they want to play the game, because they've got a financial goal, for example, and all that's legitimate, I don't want to... People need to do what they need to do. But when they come to me, they're usually like, "Okay, I gotta do something different. Let's figure this, help me figure this out. Help me figure out another way."
Erica D'Eramo 19:55
Yeah. I think that's one of the real benefits of talking to you a coach about what is most important to you. Because if you even have the wherewithal to know that I'm doing this job, and showing up and enduring all this, because I want the financial freedom, then it's like, okay, well, then what is the financial freedom look like? What's the number?
Robbie Leigh 20:17
Yep.
Erica D'Eramo 20:17
What does that look like? And is there a different way? Can you get... is really that number? Is it something else? Is it a little lower for you to be happy? Or is it you know, like, a little less stable, but a little more fulfilled. And, too often, we take whatever goal was put in front of us, and we just go after it. Because we've received a lot of either positive reinforcement by doing that, we've received external validation by doing that, and it's all made us feel safe, or given us like, the appearance of safety or stability.
Robbie Leigh 21:01
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 21:02
But how much is that real?
Robbie Leigh 21:06
It's absolutely true. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 21:08
Yeah. Yeah, that like, just always going after whatever the goal is. I kind of use the example sometimes of like, the, we're like at the carnival, you know, and you are playing that game and trying to, like, knock the bottles over or whatever to get the teddy bear. And you're so fixated on it, because that's just the goal that was put in front of you, right? You put your $5 down or whatever, and you're gonna do it. And then it's $10. And then it's 15. Okay, cool. You're 100 bucks in, you got the teddy bear that you could have bought at Walmart for $2. But hey, you got the sense of achievement. It turns out that the game is rigged, like the house wins. So what are we doing by buying into that? Right? And, and adapting and sticking to it for longer than it potentially is serving us?
Robbie Leigh 22:04
I love that analogy. And it's it's so spot on in so many ways. And there's also often a time where you're like, 50 bucks in and you're like, okay, is this bear worth 50 bucks, man, like, I've already spent 50 bucks, like, I can't stop now. Right? There's also
Erica D'Eramo 22:22
Ah, sunk cost.
Robbie Leigh 22:22
So the sunk costs what I've already put into my career and climbing this ladder here and the connections I've made, and I can't just go and do something else. Like, then all of that will be wasted. You know, that comes up for people too. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 22:38
Oh, yes. Right, identity, and...
Robbie Leigh 22:42
Yes, who will I be if I'm not this? If I'm, Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 22:46
It really ties into like a fixed mindset to versus a growth mindset that if you don't get that one notch locked in, where you can say, like, I was a director level, or I was XYZ, then what was it all for? Not valuing all of the learning and all of the capabilities that you picked up along the way, like, all of that wonderful stuff that you grew through all of the ups and downs and the challenges.
Robbie Leigh 23:17
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 23:18
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 23:19
But again, that's a that's a beautiful example of where the system focuses, because the system doesn't focus on your journey... Unless! You've had some major big accomplishment that the system appreciates, and telling your story of your journey from where you came from, can help the system. Then they care about your journey, right? But if you don't have the big achievement thing with the bells and whistles at the end that the system agrees with, then the system doesn't give a shit about your journey. And in fact, the journey is everything. People you're living your life every day, you're having this experience of being a human. That's it. This is it. You're doing the thing. You're living life. This is the prize! You get to be alive right now. You're doing it! You're doing it!
Erica D'Eramo 24:11
100% Yes, yes. Yes. I know, like the risk... It's so fascinating how our brains prioritize risk and how many like stories they tell us because, when I really took it apart, and I've shared this before, but like the biggest risk to me, is not the financial insecurity of making a big job change or a career change. It was of living an unfulfilled life because I can't get it back. I can rebuild wealth. I can have up, ups and downs. Like people lose wealth in the blink of an eye when a stock market crashes, right? Money comes and goes, I can never go back and be in those moments again and have more happiness.
Robbie Leigh 24:13
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 24:36
It's one way. It's like a one way track.
Robbie Leigh 25:10
That literally gave me chills. Yes, that's right.
Erica D'Eramo 25:15
Yeah. So releasing all of those messages is like a huge is was, I think that there was maybe a point for me where I kind of woke up to it. But it's still like an ongoing process for me to recognize my tendency to just try to adapt, like, just just keep trying to adapt without stopping and asking, like, "Why am I trying to adapt? What is it costing me? What are the benefits." And I, I remember the moment. I remember the day that like the penny dropped for me. And it was when I was offshore, and I just felt so lost about how I was supposed to be All The Things. like I just wanted to be a good person, a good employee, a good leader, a good woman, like, all the things, I just wanted to be good. And I like, just jotted down all the feedback I had gotten in that day, about all the ways I should change or be different. And it came out on the page so clearly, that these things were indirect opposition. There was no way to be both. And I would never achieve it. So if all these other people telling me to do the, to be different ways, clearly, it's bullshit, because I can never own all of that at the same time. They're in direct opposition. So I better just decide what I want to be...
Robbie Leigh 27:00
Yes!
Erica D'Eramo 27:02
...then pick and choose where I want to adapt and change and who I want to be. And that doesn't mean that like, external feedback isn't helpful. I think it is. But I think the filter that I kind of ask now, at least with clients, and I try to do with myself is like, "Would you let that person pet-sit for you?" And if the answer is no, then why are you allowing them to direct where your selfworth sits or where your energy goes? Because you wouldn't let them pet-sit like, you care a lot about your pet, or you know, your your child, I suppose. Although a lot of people wouldn't let anybody sit for their child. But I think like, if you wouldn't trust them with a loved one's well being, why are you not valuing yourself as much as that loved one and being that picky about it?
Robbie Leigh 28:01
Yes, that's right. This is such a helpful lens. Yeah. For most of my life, my lens was pointed outward. what do these people think had you know what, and I very much relate to what you said, I wanted to be the good daughter, the good spouse, the good employee, the good woman. I wanted I wanted to be good. And yeah, it's it's, I couldn't win. I couldn't win at the game. It just couldn't win it the game. I don't remember a moment as stark as yours. Yours is illustrated so perfectly. It's like, oh, these these you can't even win this because they're in opposition. Like it's physically impossible to do this. Yeah, I'm turning the lens inward to really look at what, what does winning look like for me? What do I value? What do I care about? Who do I want to be in the world? And am I making myself happy? That has been life changing for me. And it's been life changing for my clients.
Erica D'Eramo 29:06
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 29:07
Starting the lens there, and then you're gonna get external feedback. That'll happen. But yes, filtering it, exactly the way you're talking about right? Which ones deserve to just not be listened to at all? Which one deserves to be taken in with a grain of salt? Which ones do you really take in and go "Okay, let me hear from you." It's, it's really, it's really important. But starting with the inward focus has been a big shift for me, instead of constantly looking outside. "What do they think? What do they think?" What do I think? How do I feel?
Erica D'Eramo 29:48
Yeah, because you'll never be you'll never win the game. You'll never achieve the true like safety of the system, but like this, the system will never fully grant you the safety that you're seeking by being the good XYZ, right? So like, once you get kind of clear on like, "Oh, this is unattainable." There isn't. It doesn't matter how many times I throw this ball, I'm not knocking down all the bottles like they're glued.
Robbie Leigh 30:19
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 30:20
It doesn't matter. Yeah, you can walk away then. Yeah. It's... I think the concept of adaptability is so fascinating and complex, because it is just like a muscle that serves us so well in so many different ways and does allow us to have these wonderful experiences in the world, right? Like living abroad requires a lot of adaptability to learn how to be open and change the way you see things and the way you move through the world. And I think that there's so much
Robbie Leigh 30:59
Yes!
Erica D'Eramo 30:59
I would never give that up. Right? Like those experiences of mine have been some of the most fulfilling and fruitful. And also recognizing when it's just not the tool for all situations, right?
Robbie Leigh 31:15
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 31:19
Yeah. So we also kind of talked about perfectionism a little bit.
Robbie Leigh 31:32
Favorite topic.
Erica D'Eramo 31:34
That's another piece that's a bit tangentially related, in my opinion, because I see them as very similar. This like striving for... adapting, adapting, adapting, in a way, that's almost not tied to reality, like the striving in a way that's not tied to reality and the perfectionism. To me, they feel like sisters, or they're just very tightly connected. I'm not even sure that I've like fully flushed out my thoughts on that. But it feels related.
Robbie Leigh 32:14
They do feel, they do have that similar vibe of trying to attain an unattainable thing in order to win some kind of approval. Or, you know.
Erica D'Eramo 32:31
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 32:33
And...
Erica D'Eramo 32:35
Like, the changing of the self versus the
Robbie Leigh 32:38
Yes. Right. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 32:42
Versus the environment. Because that perfectionism is like a learned behavior, because we had positive results from it, or results that we perceived to be positive, we...
Robbie Leigh 33:02
positive recognitions,
Erica D'Eramo 33:04
Recognition, again, the safety,
Robbie Leigh 33:06
Yep.
Erica D'Eramo 33:08
The status?
Robbie Leigh 33:10
Yep.
Erica D'Eramo 33:13
And yet, it holds us back from so much.
Oh, my gosh. Again, the amount of energy, right that you can put towards something to make it and I'm doing quotes "perfect," is just so ill spent in so many instances. And also, this also brings up for me, who gets to define what perfect is? Because there is no, it's a concept that we've made up. Perfect doesn't actually exist? What's the perfect tree? What's the perfect flower" What's the perfect woman? We've made up shit about it. So who's defining perfection? I mean, I think that's a question to be asking when you find yourself in that loop of, "Oh, I've got to be the perfect *fill in the blank*" Well, who defined that?
Yeah. I feel like it also comes from just such a sense of, I tempted you use the word insecurity. But it's, it's probably just like a lack of security. I feel like the term insecurity similar to like sensitive gets bandied about in like a negative way. But really, it is just a lack of, sensing a lack of security, when you feel like you need to be perfect. And if you are perfect, then everything will be fine. And that's like, a myth that we can tell ourselves to put the world in order that makes sense to us. And it's, it's a myth, right? Like, you can be perfect and it won't save you. I'm sorry.
Robbie Leigh 34:50
Your life could still go to shit. Like life just, life is life. Good things happen, and hard things happen.
Erica D'Eramo 34:58
But ironically... Oh, go ahead.
Robbie Leigh 35:01
Also, yes, it is something that for many of us, I call myself a recovering perfectionist, so it's a very dear topic to me, that the we definitely internalize their perfectionism, but it didn't start with us. Like, it was, again, it's this outside system that is saying, "Here's the things you have to do in order to be protected." Here's, like you were talking about here are the things you have to do in order to be recognized and praised. And if you don't come in that package, you're in danger.
Erica D'Eramo 35:35
Yeah, I am certain that this crosses the gender spectrum, and I also feel like there's perfectionism disproportionately impacts women in, I, I think that it distracts us from actually being effective in so many cases. And it tricks us into pouring our resources into that perfection, when we could be going after the low hanging fruit, like really tackling impact. But we've learned that any flaw could get used against us, right? So we, we've learned that and I, I see women, it's really just like anyone who's not a straight, white dude, to be honest. We love you, straight white dudes who are allies. And somethings, somethings generally impact you less. This is one of them. The perfectionims, so it makes sense why that habit forms. It's just like, we just have to stop and question it.
Robbie Leigh 36:54
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 36:56
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 36:57
I, my personal belief is that this is a, yeah, it does impact more groups. I mean, it impacts some groups more deeply. But I think it's one of those offshoots of an unhealthy system that, in my opinion, is impacting everyone poorly, like the...
Erica D'Eramo 37:16
Yeah.
Robbie Leigh 37:17
Anytime we try to put a human into a box and label it and say, "This is how you be the best human," I think it's harmful to every human.
Erica D'Eramo 37:28
To every human
Robbie Leigh 37:28
Even if, even if, for some humans, it's easier to get in that box. And it's like, "Oh, this is the most like me, so it's easier for me to get in there." I still think it's harmful.
Erica D'Eramo 37:37
I know. I think even for the humans that, on like a micro perspective, there might be some humans that have a lot of privilege and benefit from some of these systems a lot. But I do truly believe that they are not better off. Like, I do truly believe that everyone is better off in this world if we could have the full participation of all of the varied, just like kaleidoscope of people.
Robbie Leigh 38:14
That is 100% my belief as well. 100%. That I think we would create a better world if people felt free to really bring what they believe into the world. Like if they really were able to speak their truth into the world and really have the freedom to do that, didn't have the negative consequences, that that was respected and listened to. I think we, this is my lofty ideal, but I really think we would have, we would create a better world. We just would.
Erica D'Eramo 38:52
Yeah. A lot of these conversations might feel uncomfortable to folks who would sense like this distributive nature of it, like, "Oh, if we dismantle the system, and I'm doing kind of well in the system right now..."
Robbie Leigh 39:06
Sure.
Erica D'Eramo 39:07
"...then that means less for me and more for somebody else." And so that feels like a threat, but I don't see it as being distributive, you know, I don't see it as like, zero sum.
Robbie Leigh 39:20
I don't either. I see it as actually more for all. Even the ones who are currently benefiting from the system. Yeah, but yeah. They think, they think they are. It would look different. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 39:36
Yeah, look different. Yeah. So yeah, it's a complicated topic. Adaptability. I think it kind of goes in the bucket with like I said, with things like resilience for me that seem great on the surface, and are maybe just overused as, as positive attributes without being questioned enough.
Robbie Leigh 40:05
I think that questioning is key. Like just being curious about it. I really like this key. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 40:11
Yeah, totally. So for any of our listeners who might be interested in working with you, Robbie, what's, what's the deal? How does that, happen?
Robbie Leigh 40:23
Absolutely go check me out on my website is www.robbieleigh.com, robbieleigh.com. There's a spot there, you can either send me a note or you can sign up and we can have a free talk together. Or you can learn about how I coach and I can learn from you what you want, and we can see if that's a good fit. But yeah, if you at all resonate with what I'm saying today, please reach out. I'd love to hear from you.
Erica D'Eramo 40:54
Yeah, who are your clients, typically?
Robbie Leigh 40:58
Typically women, but men, you are most welcome and have been part of my clientele. Usually, highly sensitive people or high sensory folks, usually women later in life, so 30s and up but yeah, that's, that's true. And often, again, people at a crossroads, they're really looking to make life work better for them and bring more of themselves into their own life. That's what we get about. So for some people, it's a job change. For some people, it's starting a business they've been wanting to do, for others, it's learning how to say what's true for them with the people that they're closest to, like finding their voice. It's all those kinds of things.
Erica D'Eramo 41:48
Yeah, nice. I love that. So I thought this was kind of a nice change of pace for the usual sort of Q&A. I know I asked you a lot of questions, but this is just a good conversation. So I appreciate you coming and sharing your thoughts and, and your expertise and insight here. And for anyone listening that wants to find more on Two Piers, you know where to find us, our website to peers, consulting.com and your typical social media platforms @twopiersconsult. So thanks again to Robbie for joining us.
Robbie Leigh 42:27
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a great conversation,
Erica D'Eramo 42:30
And we will see you next episode!