Please note that the following transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.

Erica D'Eramo 0:05

Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. In today's episode, we'll be exploring a topic that touches every industry, wellness and well being, among leaders and administrators. So joining us today is Dr Luévanos, a recognized expert with extensive experience and leadership across multiple sectors. He's also a Two Piers coach. We'll be diving deep into the unique challenges that leaders face in maintaining their wellness and how it might differ across industries such as business, construction, healthcare and education.

Dr Luévanos, thank you for being here.

Dr. Luévanos 0:52

Yeah, thanks for having me, Erica, I'm excited to be part of this important conversation,

Erica D'Eramo 0:56

yeah. So let's, let's just start by setting some definitions. So how would you define wellness and well being for leaders, especially since you know you've worked across multiple industries. So what does that mean in the context of even executive leadership? Yeah,

Dr. Luévanos 1:14

so sometimes these two terms are conflated, and they can get a little confusing at times, but in the literature, wellness refers to an active process of making choices that lead to optimal health and well being. So it's often associated with physical health, but it's multi it's multi dimensional. So it encompasses areas such as emotional, social, intellectual and spiritual health, and it it emphasizes preventative health behaviors and activities like exercising, eating well and managing stress. And so the concept first originated with Dr Dunn whenever he was researching this in 1959 in a work entitled high level wellness. And so with his work, that area of research was established and defined a little bit better. And so well being didn't come into the fore until just right around the 1980s with diner, I think is diner Larson and Griffin's work and their satisfaction with life scale and the Journal of Personality assessment. And so they define well being as a state of being comfortable, happy, healthy. And so it's more of a holistic concept that includes emotional, psychological and social dimensions that reflect how individuals feel about their life as a whole. And it focuses more on life satisfaction and subjective happiness than just the physical health portion of life.

Erica D'Eramo 2:43

So tell me a little bit more about like, how, how we see the impacts of wellness or well being on leadership? Like, how does that? How do we see that throughout the organization? Then what? What impact does that have?

Dr. Luévanos 2:56

Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Erica wellness for leaders, involves a complex balance of mental, emotional, physical health and leadership roles. The stakes are high and the demands are relentless, but wellness is about making intentional choices to maintain equilibrium. Whether you're a CEO in business or superintendent in education, wellness impacts the decision making, team leadership and personal performance,

Erica D'Eramo 3:23

yeah, and I think we'll probably end up exploring that a little bit more. But this is not just about this conversation that we're having is not just about wellness on an individual level or well being on an individual level, but almost the knock on effects that it can have, especially at the leadership level and throughout the organization?

Dr. Luévanos 3:43

Oh, for sure. So I just you know, in healthcare, for example, there's an added layer of emotional labor, because you're responsible for the well being of other patients, staff and often the community at large. But in business, the pressure is more about financial performance and corporate growth. Again, both are intense in different ways, and that intensity can take a toll if not manage properly.

Erica D'Eramo 4:04

Yeah. So I mean, speaking of intensity, what do you see as the primary challenges that leaders face when it comes to either managing or, you know, investing in their own well being, especially in, say, some of these industries that you've worked in, like, construction or education,

Dr. Luévanos 4:24

yeah, my experience in construction, I mean, I can think back long time ago, when I was just, you know, trying to get that, that job right out of high school, and I had seen for the very first time, because I was, I was able to work and tandem with a project manager and I saw the intensity of the job. So in construction, for instance, leaders are constantly managing physical demands, both for themselves and their teams. It's a high risk, high stress environment where safety is a priority, but wellness often gets overlooked. But on the other hand, in education, especially at the. Administrative level you're dealing with emotional and mental fatigue. Just imagine the number of people that you're constantly talking with every single day, balancing policy decisions with day to day needs, of teachers, students, parents, community members, school board trustees, you know, and every other boss that you have that's, you know, kind of higher up on that totem pole. And so both industries pose unique challenges, but the common thread is that wellness for leaders often comes last on the list.

Erica D'Eramo 5:27

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, there's a lot of I could sounds like a lot of stakeholder management. And so while that might be a particular challenge and impact on wellness and well being in education, I'm sure that folks who are listening probably can relate to that in their own organizations, if they're in a complex organization that has a lot of stakeholder management. And my thing, you know, there's that like classic book, leaders eat last and I think we do often glamorize this idea of self sacrifice on behalf of the leader, but maybe not recognizing what happens when you know the leader comes last on the list in terms of taking care of their own wellness and well being. So you know, what have you seen leaders do in managing their own their own wellness and well being, and maybe, how has that differed across industries?

Dr. Luévanos 6:25

Yeah, I mean, that's that's a really good question. It starts with making wellness a non negotiable, right part of your routine. You know, you wake up every morning. What is it that you do? Leaders need to realize that they're more effective leaders when they take care of themselves. I'll just cite just a couple of quick studies in 2023 double A essay study, school Superintendents Association survey that found 90% of Superintendents report high levels of job related stress with 44 44% of them considering leaving their role within the next two to three years due to burnout, and so the average tenure, it's not a wonder that school superintendents in urban districts, it's only 3.2 years. So that reflects a high level of pressure in that role. Health challenges among superintendents, and nearly 70% of Superintendents report significant work related stress that impacts our physical health, often leading to chronic conditions such as hypertension, heart disease and sleep disorders, and then with CEOs, according to the Harvard Business Review, in 2021 60% of CEOs report feeling isolated in their roles, contributing to anxiety and depression. That lack of peer support and leadership has been noted as a significant driver of that phenomenon. And so you know you're when you think about this. You know you're thinking about mental health issues. Another study 2020, study found that 72% of executives reported some form of mental health issue, with 50% experiencing burnout. So the issue of wellness and well being among CEOs, superintendents, healthcare administrators, construction project managers, is a critical one, and so again, I stress it's important that leaders make that step be intentional. I recommend mindfulness practices, regular physical activity, creating boundaries between work and personal life. Look, make it a team effort. You know, find some find some folks, some core folks in your organization, that you can really start a wellness program with and make that the culture. You know, in industries like construction, I've seen leaders who schedule stretch breaks and encourage open communication about mental health and health care. Leaders are now incorporating wellness programs into the broader organizational culture. So it's important that we take hold of this and this issue of mental stress or mental health, and we do something about it, physical health and we do something about it and be intentional. That's why you're in that leadership position. Because you understand the organization intimately. You can feel it almost. You can feel the organization out and see that the fatigue and the stress is just heavy, and so it takes you to take a step forward in the right direction and be intentional about leading the way for your folks.

Erica D'Eramo 9:14

Yeah, I so a couple things come to mind here. I we recently did a workshop at the women offshore inclusion summit, and my co facilitator, Tanya Tarr, who is actually an executive health coach and behavioral scientist and does a lot of work in this area, shared a statistic about construction teams that do a stretch break before Engaging in work actually have a lower incidence of injuries on site, which is really interesting. And, I mean, I'm sure that there's a lot of data around, you know, maybe that has to do with focus. Maybe it has to do with becoming more like present or in our bodies, or, you know, who knows? And there's probably also an element that she talks. A lot in terms of mirror neurons and a team that does things together. So I love that you bring up doing things together. And I think that there are a lot of mandated wellness programs as part of insurance companies that have had pretty questionable success over time in terms of, like, getting 10,000 steps in per day. Or, you know, I think a lot of these things have been debunked over time, but I think what can be really impactful is the doing it together, right? Like these are the people that you spend a lot of time with that you're reliant upon and knowing that you're not just a cog in the machine, but that you actually want your colleague to be able to, you know, see their grandchildren, spend time with their with their, you know, hanging out with their puppy, and actually not be winded at the end of it, and to be able to get the rest that they need and not carry that emotional load home at the end of the day. I think definitely it's really, it's it's really impactful. And I know that we've seen in offshore environments, you know, putting up photos of our loved ones and stuff like remembering that context helps to keep people safer. So for sure, coming together as humans, you know, yeah,

Dr. Luévanos 11:16

for sure. I mean, I mean it can you can you can tie it to being a safety issue. I mean, my thought is, you know, just thinking about the impact of workload, you know, 2023 health health leaders survey reveal that 82% of healthcare administrators are working beyond their regular hours, exacerbating stress and burnout. So just think about that on the operating table, providing healthcare, you know, trying to communicate in writing, and, you know, in speech to folks, and how many, how many doctors honestly would would say, you know, or admittedly say, how many mistakes have been made and then not caught, you know, by them and they were caught by other people. So again, this is a community effort, an organizational community effort to make wellness and well being a topic of discussion and something that you focus on and something that is is as important as safety. And so I say, start small. You don't need to overhaul your entire lifestyle. I would say just five minutes of mindfulness each morning can make a huge difference. And it's also important to lead by example. So you leaders out there of these organizations, again, you are the person that will prioritize health for the organization, for your team, and your teams will feel empowered to do the same?

Erica D'Eramo 12:41

Yeah, I think it's a really important part too. And I this modeling element too, because culture is not about what an organization says, right? It is fundamentally about what an organization does. And I've shared this statistic on the podcast before that for in the energy industry, you know, certainly process safety incidents are correlated to operational discipline measures, however, personal safety incidents are correlated to trust in leadership. And what does trust in leadership come from? It comes from leaders saying and doing things that are consistent. So what I think folks may not understand is if you say that wellness and well being is important, and you encourage people to say, take their vacations or go for their full lunch break or go home at a reasonable hour, but you are not doing that as a leader, then a undermines trust, but B, it's not really going to engender the true environment until you are living it and breathing it yourself. And I am guilty of that, like I I had times where, you know, working offshore, where I would work way too late, burn myself out, and my manager, who is essentially like the captain of the ship, really had to pull me aside and say, if you're going to work late hours, you need to go do it from your cabin, because I can't have people seeing you working late hours while you're telling them to go get their rest. You're not getting your rest. So if you're going to be a hypocrite, at least do it behind closed doors, so you're not setting a bad example. So So yeah, I think you bring up really good points. And it doesn't need to be big, right? It can be, it can be small. So, so, yeah, tell, tell me a little bit more about, like, how organizations can shift the culture and make this a priority.

Dr. Luévanos 14:31

Yeah, culture is critical. I mean, that really is that really, is it right? Another study that I saw said that only 15% of construction companies have formal wellness programs that specific, specifically designed for leadership roles. So this is, I mean, it is, it's, it's a Cultural Foundation, an organization when wellness and is integrated into the fabric of the company. You know, leaders feel more supported in construction, for example, a company that values not just. Safety, but mental health can transform the way its leaders operate. Similarly in education, districts that emphasize wellness for their leaders can foster a healthier environment for teachers and students. In contrast, a culture that values constant work without arrest leads to burnout at every level,

Erica D'Eramo 15:21

yeah, and burnout is not just an ethically terrible thing to put people in your organization through. It's also a very ineffective and expensive thing to put your organization through. So leads to high turnover, leads to mistakes, leads to poor morale, and ultimately, it's just not sustainable. Yeah,

Dr. Luévanos 15:43

I say invest. Invest now, that way you're not paying for it in the future. You want to, want to, you want to provide longevity in your career, and you want to provide longevity in your employee work pool, right? Because we all know, we've all seen the the stats it, you know, it takes more money to employ newer folks and train them and get them used to the culture than it does just to keep the current the current employee that you have. So it's important. It's about leadership buy in. It's about culture change. And so when leaders make wellness a priority, it trickles down to the rest of the organization. Initiatives like wellness days, flexible work schedules, or simply encouraging leaders to take time off, as you had mentioned earlier, can have a big impact in healthcare. It's also about recognizing the emotional burden and providing resources like counseling or peer support for leaders or even coaching. You know what? You know, what we do, you know, call us. We reach out to us. It's so important that you have somebody on your side, somebody that can help you think through things, somebody that can show you that this can be managed at a you know, in a way that wellness and well being take center stage and produce something very positive in your life, not just for your professional life, but for your personal life.

Erica D'Eramo 17:07

Yeah. I mean, I think there are folks who focus specifically on, say, executive health, like, like the coach, Tanya Tarr that we mentioned, that I mentioned earlier, but I also find, you know, and I also find as well, that for those leaders that we work with as coaches so often, when I ask the question, you know, if you were a house plant, how would you be doing? And the answer is, like, terribly, because just the even the base needs, right, like Maslow's hierarchy, the base needs of just hydration and sleep, and some of those base needs are not being met. And I know that Tanya jokes about, like, you know, wellness is not green smoothies. There's not this is not something that you can just as a consumer, just like purchase the thing. The reason, I think that working with coaches as even, you know, as leaders or even just as individual contributors, is because this is about habits, right? This is about building in habits so that it's a part of your life and it change over time. You know, it takes time. So

Dr. Luévanos 18:15

I was, I was just thinking, I don't mind as a coach if you reach out for wellness, you know, for some wellness help. Hey, yeah, talk about, I can coach you for a little bit, then we can work out right on,

Erica D'Eramo 18:26

right? Because I guess you and I both share that right, like you do. You do fitness coaching as well, and I do, I, I'm a yoga teacher in my, you know, which tonight I'll be doing. I'm teaching a yoga class. And I think that this is, you know, this really is like a mindset piece as well, because it's not an element of just tack on a couple to do items to your already never ending to do list. And maybe that's where some of these wellness initiatives that are mandated by insurance companies, or by, you know, by the company, where it's like, you have to get your 10,000 steps, you know, X amount of times per year, and you have to attend these online webinars, and you have to fill out these quizzes. And, you know, it comes to the end of the year, and people are like, staying up all night to finish all their their like modules. You're like, is this really impactful? It's not about it's not about the green smoothie. It's not about checking an item on the to do list. It's about, like, embedding this, being aware. How is it impacting you? How is it impacting your team? So what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Luévanos 19:35

Well, I think of it this way. It is about leadership, taking, you know, taking an intentional approach to wellness and well being. You know, at the end of the day, we're looking at how leaders change a culture, and what a better way just think about this, what a better way to include some kind of yoga or exercise program or just walking, you know, with another employee or with a team. Uh, to create community. I mean, it's something else. It's, it's an additional item to talk about at the water cooler, where you can generate connection within the organization. And so we're seeing, you know, we're definitely seeing a shift toward a more holistic approach to wellness, you know, with a greater emphasis on mental health and emotional intelligence. In business, for example, hybrid work models are helping leaders find better work life, balance and construction and wearable tech is being used to monitor health and safety and education. We're seeing more professional development folks focused on emotional well being. And so again, we're talking about a very simple step of intentionality towards overall health, starting with with yourself as a leader, and making this a generative act for the entire organization, to be sure you're creating a place where you can feel that you're not only getting professional growth, but you're also getting personal growth.

Erica D'Eramo 21:05

Yeah, I think that's really, really powerful. So you know, for the leaders listening right now, what might one just piece of advice be that you have that you would like to share? Look,

Dr. Luévanos 21:17

make time for yourself. Please, make time for yourself, whether it's a five minute break or an hour of exercise, your wellness, your well being, is the foundation of your leadership. You can't take care of others if you're running on empty. Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo 21:32

absolutely. Well, I really appreciate your insights on this. I love all the data and the research that you always bring to the table. So appreciate that. Thank you so much for for coming to the podcast again, one of our favorite guests and favorite, you know, part of the team. So it's really been a pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Luévanos 21:53

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Erica D'Eramo 21:55

Yeah, and that wraps up today's episode. So thanks for listening in to the Two Piers podcast. We certainly hope you found it valuable. If you enjoyed our conversation, make sure you subscribe. And you know we always love to see a review. You can follow us on the social medias. We're on Facebook, Instagram, not really doing the Twitter these days, but LinkedIn, for sure. And you can always visit us at twopiersconsulting.com where we have more resources. You can find a summary of this episode and any links associated with it. So thanks to Dr Luévanos for joining us, and we'll see you next time you