We’re joined by guest, Jacqui Bishop, a renewable energy real estate attorney, and nervous system informed leadership facilitator. Jacqui hosts the Thriving Leader interview series which provides tools for professional women to reconnect with pleasure. She’s also the author of the upcoming book, Melted in which she shares her epic journey of awakening after decades of chronic stress.
In this exciting and insightful episode, we discuss the ways in which we can shake loose from the enduring state of fight-or-flight that permeates our working days, to reconnect with our more creative, joyful and present natural state. Jacqui shares her very practical 4 step process for how to shift from an activated nervous system to a receptive one. Whether you’re spending your days on an offshore oil rig, or wearing scrubs in an operating room, or dealing with continual microaggressions and stressors in a high-pressure office job, this will be a valuable listen.
You can find Jacqui's guided "Complete the Stress Cycle" audio here!
Transcript Below:
Erica D'Eramo 0:10
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host Erica D'Eramo. And this is season four. Today we have Jacqui Bishop joining us. She's a renewable energy real estate attorney and nervous system informed leadership facilitator. She hosts the Thriving Leader interview series - tools for professional women to reconnect with pleasure. Jacqui loves discussing ways to dislodge the effects of chronic stress on the body and share tools for nervous system regulation. Her debut book Melted will be published in the spring of 2024, where she shares her epic journey of central awakening after decades of chronic stress, we are so excited to have Jacqui join us and share her journey and her thoughts with us.
Jacqui is an Australian born adventurer who grew up on a catamaran and sailed with her family across the Pacific Ocean, she has had so many adventures, she's swam with the sharks on the Great Barrier Reef and eaten lobster with stranded seafarers on an active volcanic island 500 miles from mainland Mexico. Her philosophy is that work life balance isn't about rewarding yourself with a little relaxation at the end of a hard week. Instead, it's about learning to skillfully regulate the dynamic interplay of nervous system states so that you can spend less time in the survival states of chronic stress and more time with access to your executive functioning, creative flow, and connection to pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. Jacqui. We're really happy to have you with us.
Jacqui Bishop 1:49
Thank you so much for having me. Erica. It's absolute pleasure to be here.
Erica D'Eramo 1:52
So tell us a little bit about your origin story. I mean, you've had quite, I mean, quite a series of adventures. And yeah, I'm really interested to hear how you got to this place in your life.
Jacqui Bishop 2:08
Absolutely, you know, that that adventurous spirit is obviously very strong in me with growing up on a sailboat and all of the, the anchorages, and wild ocean crossings and things like that. But you know, like, as kids tend to, like, try to be opposite of their parents, like, I definitely was like, "Oh, I'm going to be a lawyer, and I'm going to I'm going to live in a house," and, you know, all of these really straight laced things, you know, so I did the whole, like, let's try to get straight A's, like, let's graduate at the top of our class, like, let's, you know, do all these really intense things. For you know, that what ends up being like this, the latter part of childhood, and then adolescence, and, you know, this whole, the whole 20s is taken up with, like, trying so hard to please other people and to achieve. And then next thing, you know, you know, I'm in the glass tower, working, you know, being encouraged to work on weekends to prove, you know, that I'm committed and all these kinds of things, which I was just doing, you know, and then, and then there's sort of, like, this moment, where I realized, you know, I wasn't feeling pleasure anymore. It had sort of just disappeared out of my range of experience. And I actually went to my doctor and asked them about this, and, and they were like, "I'm so sorry, some women just don't feel pleasure," like, end of story. That's it, too bad for you. And then they added, "most women don't," which, you know, was the point where I was like, hold on, like, this can't be the standard. And so from there, I embarked on this wild journey. My... I got my adventurous spirit back, let's just say and embarked on this journey to try and find that right to try to regain that capacity. And, and here I am.
Erica D'Eramo 4:11
So that I mean, we usually ask, you know, what kind of drew to the work that you're doing? And it sounds like you had that aha moment. But what, what shifted your mindset to do the work you do now around nervous system informed work and the thriving leadership series, like to open it up to a broader audience?
Jacqui Bishop 4:34
Yeah, Well, you know, I just think of like, who I was seven or eight years ago, right? Like, I didn't, I didn't even know the questions to ask when it comes down to it. Right. And so it's like when I do the work I do now, in part, it's talking to who I was seven or eight years ago, and then I'm using language that is that would be accessible to me and like that I would be open to listening to you You know, because it has to do with biology, like it has to do with the nervous system, which is a really like important and little, like, we don't learn, we're not taught when we're young, like, here's how to regulate it, here's how to influence it. Here's what to do when this or that happens, right? Oh, here's how to notice what state you're in. Yeah. And so like bringing these like fundamental skills that really could be skills for like, kindergarteners to learn it would not be that would be a perfectly appropriate place to learn these skills. But I learned them when I'm, you know, 35 years old, and was kind of like shocked at how effective they are and, and life changing they can be.
Erica D'Eramo 5:44
Yeah, I still have a memory of the first time I feel like I put down stress, like I think it was in a yoga class even more, somebody just said, like, you can leave, you can like put this down here, and the feeling of like lightness, that just observation of all of the chronic stress that I had been carrying. And just like a moment where you thought like, oh, oh, I see. It's like carrying a load that I hadn't put down forever, that I didn't even notice I was carrying anymore. And finally did it. So yeah, I mean, that was adulthood for sure. So what, what would you say, what are some, like common themes, then in the work that you do?
Jacqui Bishop 6:35
Yeah, Well, you know, I think of it as sort of, like this reconnecting with something that we already have, right, our innate sort of resting place, resting state is that of thriving, right, it's where you're in the physiological state to feel things like pleasure, to have, you know, satisfaction and flow states, creativity, this is how humans are when we are at rest. And then we get hijacked into into other states right into survival mode. And of course, in our culture, that happens, often, right. And sometimes when we're chronically stressed, it means we've we're just staying in that hijacked stress mode, constantly and living from there, which leads to adrenal fatigue. And it leads to, you know, we have this thing called an allostatic load, which is just like this, this this stress factor, like pressure factor that is on our nervous system. And so, themes that have arisen from just like knowing that this is how we are so often in the day, like up to 70% of the day for a lot of people. So it's like, okay, how do we get from this state of nervous system activation to the state where the things that we desire are possible. And, you know, what I've, what I've found is sort of like four key principles for making that shift. And for kind of recovering from from this state of chronic stress so that you have this access. Do you want me to talk about those?
Erica D'Eramo 8:10
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I would love to hear about the framework.
Jacqui Bishop 8:15
Alright. So the first thing is leveraging your nervous system, right, learning about how your nervous system works, so that you can dance with that dynamic interplay between nervous system states, like the goal is not to always be in like thriving mode, and like, always pleasure and happy and all of those things like because it's it's not realistic or possible, right? There's literally going to be dozens of times every day where we're going to neurocept danger in our environment, whether that's from our own thoughts, or from external situations. And so dancing with that dynamic interplay is like being like, "Oh, I'm activated. Oh, I'm in this state. I'm going to use my tools to see about switching over to being activated through safety." So huge skill, that.
Erica D'Eramo 9:08
Yeah, I mean, that's, it sounds so simple when you say it out loud, but it's... how many people don't even know that their heart rate has gone up or like that they're even in fight or flight mode when it happens. I think I saw a meme the other day that I really related to you and it was like, "could somebody please tell my nervous system that fight or flight was meant to like escape a tiger and not respond to an email?"
Jacqui Bishop 9:31
Yeah, that's a good meme, totally and you know, so often, the response that we're getting is freeze too. Right? So
Erica D'Eramo 9:39
Yeah, or fawn.
Jacqui Bishop 9:42
Yeah, or fawn. It can look like even just like watching streaming videos, right as a way to like shut down until you
Erica D'Eramo 9:48
Dissociate?
Jacqui Bishop 9:50
Yeah, right. So it's like we do it a lot more often than then I even realized when I first started learning about this. And then the second And principle is this concept of completing the stress cycle. So we've got stressors in our environment, and we have stress. And they are two different things on the stressors. Yeah, we can manage those, like, we can try to create a more, you know, stress or free environment, but they're never totally going to go away, right. And then we have the stress, which is our body's physiological response to the stressors. So that's that increased heart rate you're talking about, you know, the sweating palms, the tension in the shoulders like this is the stress in response in the body. So completing that cycle is so important, because often we, we just stay we like hold on to that stress, and it just builds and builds and builds in us, and maybe has a big explosive completion. But if you look at like, like, like little children or animals, like they, you, they know how to instinctively complete the stress cycle, like a toddler will be like screaming, and like throwing a tantrum, and then be like, "Oh, I'm done. Oh, I'm gonna go play over here." And next thing, you know, they're okay. And you're like, Whoa. But with adults, we have modified our behavior, in part because it's not appropriate to throw a tantrum, you know, at work and other places. So we modify our behaviors, because it may be inappropriate to complete the stress cycle. But we can complete the stress cycle on our own, when in private when we get home, or, you know, just by doing simple practices, such as like squeezing all of our muscles and releasing, that's like a nice way to complete the stress cycle. If you're in a place where you can't actually throw a tantrum, or like, you know, like, hit pillows on the couch.
Erica D'Eramo 11:47
Screaming in my car, I thought it was a good one until my husband was like, "um, you can hear everything." "Okay, good to know," like, at least if I'm in like traffic or whatever, and I just like need to let it out. I know that people around me can hear. But yeah, I know exactly what you mean about releasing, and I think they've even done some studies that like swearing has some of this effect in like cursing. Yeah, like therapeutic nervous system effect.
Jacqui Bishop 12:17
Awesome. Totally. Well, and you know, there's a thing, I teach a thing called the silent scream, where like, you go like this, and you go without the sound so like, you're actually getting a lot of
Erica D'Eramo 12:30
Listeners: She is screaming.
Jacqui Bishop 12:34
Yeah, if you're only listening, that's right. I'm, I'm just like doing the big wide open mouth scream, but without the sound and you know, that can still have the physiological effect of completing the stress cycle, and without alarming the neighbors and having them call 911.
Erica D'Eramo 12:50
You know, or having to patch your drywall or
Jacqui Bishop 12:53
Or patch your dry wall.
Erica D'Eramo 12:56
Well, I mean, so that brings up, not to derail the... so we're on number two, I have I have a question, though, then about number two, and how it relates to gender and maybe even neurodiversity, because the ways that that stress release, you mentioned that, you know, we modify these behaviors, in ways that are societally acceptable, the expectations of society are different for people that they see as men and people that they see as women. And similarly, I feel like there's also a through line here around neurodiversity, and how that might affect but that's probably more complex. So what are your thoughts on the gender element? How does that play into this?
Jacqui Bishop 13:38
Definitely, social conditioning has, you know, people that are considered women to, you know, having these extra expectations of like, not being overly emotional, and like, not being angry, because you end up with these labels that stick forever, and, you know, this sort of extra baggage. And yet, it is so important to express these things. You know, so there's, you know, this sort of bottom up, right, we can know that we've got to express them, so we can do it later. Because the nervous system like it doesn't, it doesn't do time in the same way as our logical mind does, right? So we can still complete the stress cycle later, we can go home, have a great cry, you know, and I recommend putting the hands up in the air and like letting grief sadness go up and out, right, instead of holding it in, like curling up in right. So like, when I drive these days, I'm like, Yes, I'm completing the stress cycle of that, like that stressor of like the sadness, you know, that like, yeah, up and out. It's so helpful. So that's the sort of bottom up but then top down, it's like we can start to design for humans to get to be more human right in our, in our, in our systems. Have a "complete stress cycle room" at the office for example, right and, and or like, just ease the ease the labels and the extra baggage that goes along with someone just being human.
Erica D'Eramo 15:15
As you said that I was picturing like, the classic Office Space scene where they take the printer out with a baseball bat.
Jacqui Bishop 15:25
They're definitely completing the stress cycle there.
Erica D'Eramo 15:28
Yeah, yeah, I feel like the way we label emotion is really interesting through a gender lens. And that, I think, like I've worked with, at least one male colleague who literally like threw a chair across the room, but wouldn't have necessarily been characterized as overly emotional. But God forbid we cried. Right. And it's like, and it's actually interesting, too, because a lot of times that those tears are not even necessarily sadness. They're sometimes just like anger that happen to come out via the tear ducts, instead of a fist. Yeah,
Jacqui Bishop 16:04
Absolutely. Well, and, you know, completing the stress cycle of having someone in the office who is allowed to throw chairs across the room and not have consequences, right, like that is really stressful environment. And so it's important to be able to complete that, that stress cycle as well. And then, of course, top down expectations set.
Erica D'Eramo 16:26
Yep. Right. Because our being able to release that stress and complete the cycle is in the context of not making other people feel that their safety is threatened. Like,
Jacqui Bishop 16:41
There's a social contract here.
Erica D'Eramo 16:44
Yeah, yes. And it's possible to do that. Although, I mean, it's interesting too, because, like you said, if it gets bottled up, and we have less control over when it comes out, that I think is probably a recipe for more damage to be done.
Jacqui Bishop 16:57
Right, you know, the, that man had many opportunities if he'd been trained to complete his stress, like, there'll be four, it ended up in an eruption that caused so much disruption.
Erica D'Eramo 17:10
So we talked about number. So we've talked about numbers one and two, tell me about number three.
Jacqui Bishop 17:16
Alright, so number three, the third principle is de-armoring. And this is one of my favorite concepts to champion because it's just so important, and it can make such a giant difference in people's lives. And de-armoring can be either physical de-armoring, like if like, there's a part of your body that like you don't, you don't feel anymore, you can de-armor to regain, like the feelings and even pleasure in those parts of your body. But it can also be emotional de-armoring, right. And so this concept really comes down to rewiring your mind, we get these neural pathways that we get accustomed to, and we like sort of deepen them by using them. But if we want to change, we want to switch things up and, and change our experience, we can create new neural pathways, and then strengthen those. And it doesn't mean we're like trying to get rid of the old neural pathway, like it's literally a part of who we are. So there's none of this like, okay, let's let go of what no longer serves us anymore. Like it's like, no, this is part of who I am. But I am going to choose to let this one wither and to put my time and energy and focus in growing this one that I want, right? And so then we end up, we end up rewired when it comes down to it either emotionally or physically.
Erica D'Eramo 18:46
Oh, that's fascinating. So I wonder if this is related, then I'm just thinking through when I used to work like a 20 day hitch offshore and then I would come back my now husband at the time boyfriend and then fiance would like go to give me a hug coming off the airplane or you know, like coming into the car off the off that 15 hour flight. And I would usually just be so kind of armored that I would like startle or pull away. And I'd be like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't mean to do that. I love you like I do want to give you a hug. I just my brain is in like reactive. And we had to kind of work through that. And so and he learned and this is great and kind of still does it to this day to just like give me a heads up and ask and say "can I give you a hug" and then I would be ready to like receive that and it really changed the way we interacted and made it so much better and so much easier, but I almost I called it like thawing out like I needed a dethaw transition period of at least like a couple days.
Jacqui Bishop 19:56
Right. My book is called Melted for a reason.
Erica D'Eramo 19:59
Oh yeah!
Jacqui Bishop 19:59
It's like going from that sort of like that like icy or like frigid state, melting into the state where you can connect. So yes, absolutely, that's, that's a great example, a great example of de-armoring and a great example of having a supportive partner who engages in developing a process with you, so that you can both get to where you both want to be. It's beautiful.
Erica D'Eramo 20:24
Right. 100% Instead of just like him being offended, or saying, like,
Jacqui Bishop 20:29
Or taking it personally...
Erica D'Eramo 20:30
Or being hurt, like, we found a way to work through it.
Jacqui Bishop 20:33
Or if you really love him.
Erica D'Eramo 20:35
Yeah, yeah, yep. Yeah, I mean, it's, there's not a lot of awareness either, especially for people, I think, because a lot of people who work in those environments that are, you know, away for a long period of time, a lot of those people are men, you know, I mean, what if you look at the military, it's also skewed by gender, if you look at oil and gas, it's skewed by gender, like some a lot of these types of careers and roles where you're in these very remote areas and intense areas, like you're living there, and then you come home, there's, I think that that affects men too. It's just that they are almost when they come back, and they feel like they need to dethaw, if they're feeling icy, society is like more... They're like fitting this societal expectation more? Not in a pos... not necessarily in a positive way. But there's not as much like questioning of that. But women are, you know, often expected to be like more touchy feely, or whatever. And so, yeah, there's no like guidebook for when you work, a six month hitch or something, how you can give your partner a hug when you come home?
Jacqui Bishop 21:54
Totally, totally, like more of these fundamental skills that would be so great to have, you know, to make our lives better and more pleasurable. And, you know, I just want to reiterate that, yeah, men are under so many intense social conditionings. That it's like, it's, you know, I'm almost wondering, is it like, so there's this this concept called the Social Engagement system. And it's a part of like that, that the nervous system, how it works is our first response, or first tier response when there we neurocept a danger is to engage socially. We make eye contact, or we smile, or if we're already feeling danger, we don't we go, we go stone wall and stoic, we don't make eye contact. So oftentimes, men get conditioned to be in that more stoic way. Right? And so it's like, I don't know, because I don't have lived experience. But I'm wondering, on these oil rigs, like, in these camps, right, is it is there actually more social engagement? And then coming back home into the way we live very isolated in like our own homes, like away from other people? Like is it actually like giving less cues of safety to the nervous system to be home? I don't know. But I'm just curious.
Erica D'Eramo 23:14
Yeah, that's really interesting to think about. I don't know. I mean, I think it also depends on the facility or the site., I know, for better or worse, the movie Deepwater Horizon was very difficult to watch. But it gave a very, I would say, accurate depiction of the process of like going offshore, like leaving your family and going offshore, and then landing to like, see your second family and having them kind of bring you in, and it's so great to see everybody it's like living these double lives. So that's an interesting thought, like, in some ways, I think that's probably accurate, that they're, you know, you're kind of living together. And so there might be, it might be a place where there is more bonding, I think it's also, there are some very rigid expectations around gendered behavior and like, masculinity is such that I would often find myself with colleagues in my office sharing really emotional things or even crying. And I know it was because I was like, the woman offshore and they felt like they could share that with me. But the interesting thing is like, well, I'm only out here a certain period of time so when I'm not out here, who... who are you able to go to? Like, who is the recipient of the crying? There is no one, right? So like, how, how scary that is that folks felt they had to just bottle that up until they, I don't know... until when? I'm not sure. Hopefully when they got home they were able to release that but yeah.
Jacqui Bishop 24:48
Yes, yes. It's very interesting. Very interesting. It's like some some places there's an almost like a designed-in outlet for that right? Like if you
Erica D'Eramo 24:59
MMhmm.
Jacqui Bishop 25:01
I mean, like an ombudsman at a university is there for, you know, you to go to when there's an issue. You know, in some religions, there's a way to there's there's a route, right and in schools like, so like in some of these institutions, there's a design for need. But then when we're outside of these institutions, like where, where do we go?
Erica D'Eramo 25:27
Yeah.
Jacqui Bishop 25:27
And what is the design? Like, do we... And if we can understand it's needed, we can design and implement it for ourselves. But then also within our communities.
Erica D'Eramo 25:37
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is fascinating to me. And just thinking through as a leader, how we allow people to do like each of these steps, the kind of completing the stress cycle, like how are you accommodating that in your workplace? Especially if people aren't going home at the end of the day, you know, if they're there for extended periods of time, and then how are you allowing people to do armor if they need to do that? If they're, you know, you can't wait months until you go home to quote unquote, safe space? Yeah, so Okay, so what's number four?
Jacqui Bishop 26:13
Number four. Engaging your primal brain. And so often, we are so deep into the logical mind. And that can be a really fun place to be right? We can, we can get all kinds of things accomplished and check all kinds of things off the checkoff list. And we can really accomplish amazing things with that logical mind. And I celebrate the logical mind. And there's so much, there's so much to be accessed when we tap back into our primal brain. And the primal brain is where some of the experiences that we enjoy the most emerge from. And so being able to, like consciously activate the primal brain can be a really important skill as one of these like sort of four principles we've been talking about for reconnecting with pleasure reconnecting with that vibrancy and thriving that we crave in life. And so some of the ways that I invite people to reconnect with the primal brain is, like something as simple as looking at a beautiful piece of art. Right? When, when art like speaks to you, it's communicating directly with your primal brain. And sometimes it's been like, it's sending messages that like maybe don't feel safe. But if you can find art that like sends the messages that are like the safe messages, then that can be a beautiful thing to purposefully engage in.
Erica D'Eramo 27:39
Yeah, it's like, I feel like any of those moments where you feel just super present in the like, present, there in that snapshot of a microsecond like that, to me, I think like dancing is one of those ones for me, like salsa dancing, where I'm so embodied, I'm like, in my body, you know, the music, the movement, the crowd, like all of these elements, and there's not any logic brain happening. It's like,
Jacqui Bishop 28:09
Right, you're being outside of the logical framework. And that can be liberating and beautiful, like, even just like, you know, lighting candles, like fire speaks to the primal brain. Ritual speaks to the primal brain. Yeah, so these are the things that we can cultivate more of, like, whether it's just like having a bonfire, when it's not fire season, and, you know, like, or just a candle, even my e-candles that I have. So make sure nothing burns down like that. That can also speak to the primal brain. Really get in-tune with another experience.
Erica D'Eramo 28:48
It's fascinating. You mentioned that because one of the things I recently started instituting, or I'm trying to institute, is for my writing practice for my journaling practice is lighting a candle to sort of tell my brain like, okay, candle is burning, the scent is here like to associate that scent with the activity, to wire my brain that like, we're going to sit here and do this. And then, when we're done, we blow out the candle like, this is sitting time and just to build that, like muscle memory in my brain. Like a little ritual.
Jacqui Bishop 29:21
You're in your, your, your five senses, and that is such a perfect way to, you know, engage that primal brain.
Erica D'Eramo 29:29
A lot of the research around resilience also talks about rhythm as well being one of the elements that humans like going way back in various civilizations have used to make, make it more likely that you have a resilient outcome. So it's interesting as we kind of discussed these different things I know the candle and writing maybe isn't quite the same, but a lot of these elements have that rhythm tied to it of like, by breath and being present. And I'm sure even like physical intimacy is one of these primal activities and that has rhythm to it.
Jacqui Bishop 30:09
It can be if you'r not in your logical mind.
Erica D'Eramo 30:12
Yeah.
Jacqui Bishop 30:14
You know, I work with, with doctors, with resident doctors that, you know, they're, they're new physicians. And we talked about the importance of creating rituals in your workplace, in order to be able to have that resilience to handle a job where like, maybe every 15 minutes or every half hour, you're getting someone else's bad news, right, or potentially bad news or you're giving bad news or like something life changing is happening for people and it's stressful for the patients but also for the doctors to do this day in and day out. And so we were developing rituals as part of my working with them and, and one of the doctors was already doing it, you know, he had this thing where he would like knock twice on like the clipboard and like, do like a little like thing with his hands before he walked into each room. And that would like help with that resilience and help to like, set his system to be able to handle what was next.
Erica D'Eramo 31:14
Yeah, that's fascinating. And, and so useful to i, the part about the logical brain versus the like, primal brain is also, I'm realizing now that sometimes in mentoring relationships, you know, if I have a mentee who or coaching sometimes, but mostly in mentoring relationships, if I have a mentee who says like, "Sometimes I cry, and I don't want to, like at inopportune times, and I don't want to cry." And one of the things that a mentor told me ages ago, which has been so helpful in this was to do math. And if you feel like you're about to cry, and you don't have the liberty to cry in that moment, for various reasons, you can do some, not like "one plus one equals two," because that's memorization more,
Jacqui Bishop 32:02
Oh, that's right, straight where I went.
Erica D'Eramo 32:04
No, like actual, like, do some real math, like if you can sketch it down or in your head. And it does that it switches you into the logical brain of that problem solving brain and out of the fight or flight. So...
Jacqui Bishop 32:16
Interesting, that's what a great tool.
Erica D'Eramo 32:18
Yeah, I mean, it can it can kind of work both ways. But I think we teach people more how to get from the emotional, the like, being in our emotions into being in our logic, and not really vice versa. Right?
Jacqui Bishop 32:33
Right. And it's like, okay, both ways can be really helpful. And as long as if we later go and complete the stress cycle, right, and not just like, put it off and let it add up
Erica D'Eramo 32:44
Fester, bury, yeah. So um, so what do you think some of the, as you've done this work, and it sounds like you've worked with organizations and individuals, what have some of the myths been that you've kind of encountered that you would want to dispel?
Jacqui Bishop 33:03
Well, I mean, I guess going back to that origin story at the start, you know, that that was certainly a myth that, you know, some people just don't have pleasure, or, you know, like, No, we all have that as this baseline. As our default mode, we have access to things like pleasure, satisfaction, bliss. However, you know, we end up without the skill set to get ourselves back to this point. And we end up living and spending more time than necessary in this survival mode in this nervous system activated modes, so that when we can develop that skill set, we can, I guess, dispel the myth of these things just happening spontaneously, and instead, develop the skill set to lay the groundwork for these states to happen more often in our lives.
Erica D'Eramo 34:01
Yeah. And to deepen those new neural pathways.
Jacqui Bishop 34:04
Yeah, you know, and also to dispel the myth that, like, we're somehow broken, if we don't have instant access to these states, right? It's like, "No, we're actually a product of intense conditioning and intense experiences." You know, life is life. It has full spectrum. And, and it's, it's not, we're not broken. We are just learning how to be humans better.
Erica D'Eramo 34:33
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So for anyone who wanted to hear more, or work with you, or kind of maybe read more about this, where should we point them?
Jacqui Bishop 34:49
Sure, um, I have a Complete the Stress Cycle guided audio that you could share with with our listeners here today. I'll send you the link for that. And if people are interested in learning more about my book, which is, you know, slightly, it shares the principles we've talked about today, but it's, you know, slightly different adventure that is meltedbook.com to download a sneak peek of the first couple of chapters, and that that's coming out in spring of 2024.
Erica D'Eramo 35:18
Awesome, great. And do you? Do you have, like a website just for yourself?
Jacqui Bishop 35:28
You know, JMBishop.com.
Erica D'Eramo 35:31
Perfect. Great. Well, we'll also include that in the show notes as well. Yeah, what would you say some key lessons would be that you just want listeners to take away today?
Jacqui Bishop 35:42
Well, that it's a skill set that you can learn these things. And, and so you know, connecting with those four principles, noticing throughout the day, times when you can dance with a dynamic play of your nervous system, times when you have the opportunity to complete a stress cycle. Noticing places where you can de-armor, and you know, I'd certainly like investigating that and learning more about those skills. And then, of course, moments when you can engage your primal brain and step away from the logic for a moment, or longer. So definitely, watching for those is important. And then just, you know, that core, that core knowing that we're not broken, we're just learning how to be humans better.
Erica D'Eramo 36:29
Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you so much, Jacqui, for coming on and sharing your your adventures, your journey and your insights about all of these really, really important skills that will help us be more human. So thanks.
Jacqui Bishop 36:45
Such such a pleasure to be here. Erica, thank you so much for having me.
Erica D'Eramo 36:50
Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone looking to learn more about Two Piers as always, you can find us at twopiersconsulting.com or any of the social medias at @twopiersconsult and we look forward to seeing you next episode.