Photo courtesy of Unsplash.
Transcript below:
Erica D'Eramo 0:10
Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. And today we've invited a special guest to come talk to us about Yin yoga: some of the benefits, how we can incorporate it into our lives, and her perspective on the practice of Yin.
Erica D'Eramo 0:38
So joining us today is Rhia Robinson. Hi, Rhia. Thanks for joining us on the podcast today.
Rhia Robinson 0:44
Thanks for having me.
Erica D'Eramo 0:46
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Rhia Robinson 0:50
Um, well, I've been teaching yoga for almost 20 years, which is, seems crazy to say, but I started practicing yoga, in high school, and it was not a consistent practice. But the, the poses and the meditations, and, you know, I started reading about yoga certainly intrigued me enough that I kept coming back to it in high school and college. And then, of course, after college really devoted myself to studying the tradition. I teach here in Houston, Texas. And I've, I've sat on all sides of the yoga world, of course, I've been a student, I am a student, always. I've owned a studio before. And right now I'm just really focusing on my teaching. And I offer weekly classes, online classes. And I also train teachers specifically in yoga.
Erica D'Eramo 1:56
Cool. So I, one of the reasons I wanted to do an episode on Yin yoga, and bring you on to share your expertise is because I found that Yin has been a really valuable support structure for me in my life that is kind of chaotic and busy or constantly trying to juggle lots of things. And Yin has been a practice that I've kept coming back to, over the years to find some mindfulness to kind of find my edge, and to practice being still. And it, it was really quite different from what I had previously understood yoga to be. And so that's one of the reasons I wanted to share that with some of our listeners in case that is something that they would be interested in as well, because a lot of our listeners are also very busy juggling lots of things coming out of a very turbulent year with lots of trauma. And I feel that this might be something that they they could find value in as well.
Rhia Robinson 2:59
Yeah, I think I think a lot of people know, in general, the benefits of yoga, you know, someone almost always has a friend who, when they're stressed out, they say you need you should try yoga, which is great. Because as my, one of my favorite teachers, Erich Schiffmann, always said, the world needs more yogis. But you'll get in, in group classes in the US is often much more focused on a kind of a workout. modality, it's it's a lot of emphasis on flexibility, and sometimes on strength, and sometimes on sweating. And that's, that is certainly one way to approach yoga and yoga Asana in particular. And then Yin is on the other side of that spectrum. So it approaches the physical postures via this kind of passive, softer, quieter route, and we emphasize stillness.
Erica D'Eramo 4:08
Yeah, I feel like in a world that has lots of distractions, sometimes I would use yoga, like a vinyasa class as a different type of distraction. And it was a beneficial distraction, it energized me. But it didn't necessarily force me to be with myself and be with my thoughts and kind of witness the journey necessarily. So that was one of the differences that I really enjoyed about Yin. So can you tell us a little bit about Yin itself, and maybe some of the history or the philosophy around it like what is Yin yoga?
Rhia Robinson 4:45
Yeah, of course. So Yin yoga, in some ways, is considered a relatively modern form of yoga. There's kind of two big teachers out there that really codified the teachings and then and promoted them in the US. One is Paul Grilley. And the other is Sarah Powers. But Yin yoga has more of its roots in Traditional Chinese Medicine. And I think the thing to know about Yin is in some ways, even though it's considered a modern type of yoga or style of yoga, if you if you look back at some of the more traditional texts like Patanjali, Yoga Sutras, he describes Asana as being a steady, stable seat. And the fact that we use mostly seated or supine postures in Yin. And that we emphasize these qualities of stillness and ease actually point to the fact that what we're doing is probably in some ways closer to what the yogis were practicing 1000s of years ago.
Erica D'Eramo 6:04
So what do you think some of the misconceptions might be around Yin? For somebody who hasn't practiced it before or known about it before?
Rhia Robinson 6:16
Yeah, well, I mean, I think if you talk about Yin yoga, that the major misconception about Yin is that you're somehow stretching your joints and your ligaments. So in Yin yoga, we hold the postures for, in general, three to five minutes. Sometimes it's two minutes, and sometimes it's 10 minutes. But for the most part, we're kind of using this container of three to five minutes. Like I said, most of them are seated postures, or supine postures. And within the practice, we really emphasize trying to find a passive hold. So you're not gripping and gritting your way through a five minute warrior one. In fact, you're trying to find a softness. And we really, as teachers recommend practicing and about 80% of your capacity, so you're not going to your full range of motion. And then, like I said, kind of holding there, it's a little softer. That doesn't mean it's gentle. I would say that's probably another misconception is people think, oh, when you're moving slow, it's, it's it's gentle. In fact, some of the postures in Yin, as you know, are very provocative they're, they stir things up. But one of our goals, if you will, within the practice, is to be able to kind of observe that, that stirring up of stuff, and just hold space for it to not have to react immediately. So we are putting some pressure on the bones and the ligaments and the joints, we say stress. And we say that very specifically, because we're not stretching those parts of the body. But we certainly are stressing those tissues. And yeah, I hope I answered that question.
Erica D'Eramo 8:24
Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right that sometimes people think Yin is synonymous with like restorative yoga. And for me, they're just such completely different experiences. Like I'm going through a lot of emotions in a Yin class, and a lot of kind of reflections are coming up. And there's an energy there that is quite different than what I experience in a restorative class.
Rhia Robinson 8:52
So restorative yoga and Yin kind of share a little bit of crossover in that they both have long hold times. But in restorative yoga, if you're feeling any stress in the bones, or the joints or the body, it's it's a signal that you need to add more support. So there really shouldn't be any stress on the on the in the body in restorative. Whereas in Yin, we're looking to kind of come to some sort of physical edge. And so there will be sensation and sometimes that sensation can be really intense.
Erica D'Eramo 9:30
Yeah, intense is a good word not pain, right? Like we never want pain. But intensity is is a good descriptor. So I'm, I'm interested in what some of the benefits are like, I know what my benefits have been that I've I've taken away from yen and experienced from my Yin practice. I'm interested in your perspective on what some of the benefits can be.
Rhia Robinson 9:58
Well, I think there's several benefits really, of Yin yoga, but the one that I really like to promote is that a lot of us know, we've heard all about the benefits of meditation, right of trying to quiet the mind, I don't even use the word still the mind because that's nearly impossible, right? But, but certainly kind of giving some parameters around the mind. So getting a little bit more quiet. Um, getting still. Even finding some way to to rest within all of these different sensations that are happening. Those are some of the big benefits of of Yin. I would say that the more stable you feel, the more easily it will be to kind of go with the flow, on the mat, off of the mat. Of course, we live most of our lives off of the mat. So everything that we're learning, we want to be able to integrate into our life off the mat, which is, of course, where we spend 99% of our time.
Erica D'Eramo 11:18
Yeah, and that is, that is really why I felt like this was a topic that I wanted to explore a bit on a podcast episode, because for me, my Yin practice really does sort of show up throughout other aspects of my life, particularly when I am trying to be present when I'm trying to sort of explore the journey of experiences, and I will sometimes... We talk, you know, sometimes in Yin, we talk about finding your edge. And I feel like in life, that that's very valuable, understanding at what point you know, are, am I going beyond my limits? At what point am I just feeling discomfort in the moment, and I just need to sit with it and observe it and kind of learn from it. And differentiating between those two, that's I found that to be really valuable.
Rhia Robinson 12:18
Right? Well, and what develops resilience is playing with our edges. One of the things that I talked so much about when the pandemic began about a year ago is in my classes, I said, Oh, you know, what, we've been training for this our entire practice, this ability to stay stable, to remain calm, as we're navigating uncertainty. You know, these are all things that really in a good yoga practice eventually come up.
Erica D'Eramo 12:53
Yeah, I think the, the piece around mindfulness as well is a bit kind of more approachable. And this is something that we've discussed in the past, that for a lot of people sitting for three minutes of silence, just in a chair and breathing sounds like an easy thing to do. And then the first time they try to do it, they realize, Oh, this is very difficult. And sitting, being alone with my thoughts is is actually challenging. And so people will sometimes back away from a mindfulness practice, because it's not easy to establish, and that's why we call it a practice, right? So, Yin is, for me, it's like a different entryway into a mindfulness practice, that is a different experience and maybe has, I don't want to say less barriers, but perhaps more approachable barriers for me.
Rhia Robinson 13:53
I think that in 2021, we're certainly dealing with more distraction, more stress than ever. And so, yeah, asking somebody to just sit still for three minutes, and, you know, focus on their breath is nearly impossible, even for a very practiced meditator or yogi, particularly in these circumstances. So one of the reasons why I really like in is just like you said, it's a gateway or a different approach in to becoming more mindful to quieting the mind. Because we give the mind something to, to do to focus on. And this is, this is a great approach, right? Because it's not just telling the mind Hey, I want you to be quiet for three minutes. The nature of our minds is to is to roam, is to think is to wander, it's to enquire. So here in This particular tradition, we're going to use the mind. But we're going to give it something to focus on. In other words, hey, you've got three minutes, and I'm going to put you in a shape. And I want you to assess the sensation. And I want you to assess how you can support yourself better. And I want you to look at how your breath is moving, where it moves with ease where it's stuck. And I want you to notice the state of your mind. And then maybe, after we've kind of looked at all of these pieces of the experience, for the last minute, I want you to have the intention to be still. And that's maybe five or eight breaths for the average person. And that's, that's far more approachable than just being quiet for three minutes.
Erica D'Eramo 15:51
Yeah, I agree that having something to focus on a physical sensation to start with, is an interesting balance between the doing brain and the observing brain. And so it kind of gives us something to do, it gives us like a focus objective. But it also gives us that opportunity to kind of shift over into the observant observer brain, and we're observing our sensations, and then we're observing our thoughts and our emotions and responses. And that is kind of the gateway that I see into mindfulness. And that shifting from the doing brain to the observing brain,
Rhia Robinson 16:37
Right. Well, and we also get to get a sense of some of our patterns, right? So in my habit of, of or in my, in this context of observing, do I, am I judging myself? We start to look at yogi as yogis at "what do I always do?" Oh, I, I really am harsh on the side of my body that's tight, or, or things like that. And again, we can take that inquiry that information and start to see how that plays outside off of the mat. And the other thing is, as we start to tune into this observer, this part of us that is, you know, watching the body have sensations, it's watching the mind have a response to those sensations, we can start to delineate like, who is the part of me that is observing? Hmm, that's an interesting inquiry in and of itself.
Erica D'Eramo 17:40
Yeah. That's quite an existential inquiry. I yeah, I think that the one of the other kind of elements for Yin that is been that has been interesting to me is, even though it's a physical activity, it shifts us away from this, like, goal oriented achievement aspect of physical activity that so often proliferates, whether we're going for a run or we are doing a vinyasa class with like 2000 Chaturangas, whatever it is, handstands. And it shifts us away from that into the journey and the experience of it. And that can extrapolate into kind of other types of physical activity for me, where I learned to enjoy the process, rather than the metrics around it, or some sort of, like achievement around it. Just the experience.
Rhia Robinson 18:42
Yeah, I think, again, in our culture, there's kind of it's, it's very common, to always have a reason to do something. We don't rest enough, we're not used to, quote unquote, doing nothing. We, a lot of our identity is wrapped up in achievements and and what it is that we're doing on a day to day basis, minute by minute, so this idea that, you know, integration, transformation requires rest, it requires non doing is a pretty revelate or, you know, revelatory idea for most people.
Erica D'Eramo 19:33
Yeah, and that shift away from the achievement to celebrating quietness, resting experience, observation is, is also really valuable in our day to day lives as we're caught up in these kind of meetings and classes and all the zoom meetings and whatnot. Just trudging through trying to get these accomplishments. Are we experiencing the experience? Are we? Are we actually taking that sort of step back to understand, as the observer, how are we feeling? What's going on in our head? What's going on around us? And so that's another aspect for me that yen has strengthened.
Rhia Robinson 20:22
That's beautiful.
Erica D'Eramo 20:24
So we've talked about some of the benefits. And I've talked a lot about, like, how that extrapolates into my life, what are some of the risks with Yin or the contraindications perhaps that people should be aware of if they are thinking about, you know, going and and starting a Yin practice?
Rhia Robinson 20:42
Yeah, I mean, like any physical activity, there are certain risks. In particular, I would say that there's a style and a type of yoga that's best suited to different bodies and different personality types. So for one, I would say, if you're hyper mobile, like you're already very, very flexible, and you come to Yin with kind of that Western "goal mindset," it's not the best practice, because there's really the potential to further kind of destabilize the bones and the joints. Certainly people who are working with back injuries, or hip or knee replacements, or injuries may find that some of the poses are not appropriate. And for that, you know, in that, again, that's that's the case for really all yoga practices. So the best thing to do is really to find a qualified teacher. And if that's not possible, then you know, pick up a really good book that you can take a look at. And there are some general kind of practice guidelines that you can get a sense of. You know, I think the main thing with Yin is just not to overdo it to kind of keep in mind this 80% rule, that you're not going into your full capacity in any particular forward fold or backbend. But that there's there's room to allow the pose to develop over time, because we'll be there for three minutes for four minutes, five minutes. It's very different if you're maybe a hatha or vinyasa yoga practitioner, and you've only got three or four or five breaths in a pose, well, then I can see where you'd want to come up to your full capacity, because time is limited. In Yin, we have this kind of, it's a rather luxurious practice, really, and so, so you want to be careful in playing with that time that you're not going too far. I don't recommend it for for, you know, kind of a prenatal yoga practice, again, because we are strategically placing stress on the joints and the ligaments, particularly for women who are in their second and third trimester. There is certainly a risk of kind of overdoing that since they've got a hormone in their body that's preparing it for for childbirth. So those are some that's an overview of some of the risks. But finding a general kind of Yin yoga class, for most people is probably fine.
Erica D'Eramo 23:37
If you wanted to find a Yin class, where would you look?
Rhia Robinson 23:41
Oh, you know, now again, one of if we if we can say there's been benefits to to the pandemic, which I'm sure you know, there's there's a few out there if we look for the silver lining, but one of the the big benefits is that nearly every yoga studio has taken their classes in some way, shape, or form online. And they're really affordable, which is great. And they're super accessible. So if you have a yoga studio that you already like, that you're familiar with, or a teacher, you should check out and see if they have on demand classes. There's certainly some kind of national brands that are super reputable. They have a solid lineup of teachers like YogaInternational.com or Glo.com G L O. But even I believe Sarah Powers has some classes online at this point. And probably Paul Grilley does as well. So I always say, go to the top. Go to your teacher's teacher if you can. And, you know, but the one risk there if you just Google Yin yoga classes, I have no doubt you'll come up with someone's YouTube channel, which may or may not be great. It's hard to say.
Erica D'Eramo 25:08
Yeah, I think you bring up really good points about, you know, we were we are putting our bodies into states of vulnerability to a certain extent when we do some Yin, and it's, it is important to have a teacher that you trust and who is experienced? Or who, even if they're a relatively new teacher, you know, has done done the work. So, sometimes we have to sample teachers and see, you know, where our fit is?
Rhia Robinson 25:41
Absolutely. I mean, you need to find somebody who, who resonates with you, you like, what they're asking you to do you feel confident. And, of course, there's, there's tons of free yoga out there. And it's probably of varying quality. So I'll go back to kind of recommending, either, you know, again, if you have a studio that you like, they might have a Yin teacher, Yin class on the schedule, you just never, never saw it, or take a look at some of those more national kind of groupings of teachers. So Yoga International pulls teachers from all over the world, but they're of really high quality.
Erica D'Eramo 26:25
That's a great recommendation. Thank you. Is there a certain kind of time of day that you recommend doing, a Yin practice or certain time of the week? Or when would you recommend doing Yin?
Rhia Robinson 26:38
And that's a great question. You know, I think Yin yoga can be practiced at any time. But what will be important is for you to have an understanding of kind of where you want to be at the end of this practice. And that will kind of help guide the poses that you choose or the type of class that you choose. So for example, a lot of people think that Yin is relaxing. And as we've discussed, previously, it it doesn't always turn out that way. There are certain poses that are more provocative, they have a lot of sensation, and they they tend to stir up kind of expansive energies, right, they'll awaken you. So you can practice Yin to help you relax at the end of your day to help you prepare for sleep. And the poses that you would choose would be a lot more forward folds, twists, kind of supine hip openers, that kind of thing. And it's great for that. Probably less, you know, lower hold times, as well, I'd say. And, but you can also practice again in the morning to kind of wake you up. Like I said, it does have particularly back bends and laterals have a little bit more awakening expansive energy. So it just depends, you know, you can practice it at any time, but what you actually practice will differ depending on what you want to do afterwards.
Erica D'Eramo 28:24
Yeah, I still remember you kind of challenging in in your Yoga Teacher Training class that you hosted, challenging us to try doing Yin the beginning of the day in the morning, before we warmed up our muscles at all and just exploring what that experience was. And that that wasn't the time of day that I normally did Yin and it was a totally different experience for me and I really took a lot from it actually.
Rhia Robinson 28:52
Yeah, if you practice I personally love a morning Yin practice that has a lot of the the kind of the benefits to the bones to the joints to the fascia, the ligaments, and, and depending on the postures can help you move more smoothly into your day. Like you feel grounded. You feel awake, you feel centered. And it's it's great. So I'm glad you had a good experience with it.
Erica D'Eramo 29:25
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So for people who would like to learn more about your offerings, is there somewhere that they can follow you or find out more about your teachings or your classes that you host?
Rhia Robinson 29:40
Yeah, so of course, I have a website. It is www.RhiaRobinsonYoga.com. And my Instagram, I really focus on the yoga sutras and making those particular teachings accessible, practical. And so my Instagram is Essential Yoga Sutras @essential_yoga_sutras.
Erica D'Eramo 30:12
Awesome, thank you! I will include those in the the notes for the episode as well. And we just want to thank you for, you know, spending the time to explain this realm of yoga that, you know, some people might not be familiar with, and that could really benefit some individuals.
Rhia Robinson 30:32
Thank you so much for having me, it truly is my honor to share these teachings, and I love talking about yoga. And it's always so wonderful to hear from students who have had such a positive experience with the practice. So thank you.
Erica D'Eramo 30:50
Thank you! So, at Two Piers, we are committed to providing resources, and support to people in challenging environments. And this is one of those resources that we want to make available and let people know about. And if you're interested in finding out more about Two Piers Consulting, you can find information about us on our website at www.twopiersconsulting.com. We offer services for both individuals and organizations. And you can follow us on any of our social media platforms. So Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And of course, we would love if you comment and review on our podcast episodes on the various platforms. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you the next episode.