In this episode, we're joined by Jada Harris, MBA, MS, experienced business consultant, and certified SCORE mentor, to discuss the various sources of support available throughout your career. We explore and compare the different roles that we can engage with, from mentors and sponsors, to coaches, consultants and advocates. We also discuss which roles might be more appropriate for different phases of our careers and how we can foster and maintain productive, mutually supportive relationships with the individuals serving in these roles.
To find more information on support from Jada, visit her website at www.hc-bc.com and for more information about SCORE mentorship through the Small Business Administration, visit www.score.org.
Transcript Below:
Erica D'Eramo 0:05
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. Today we are joined by special guest Jada Harris. So Jada is an experienced business consultant and a certified SCORE mentor. So, she has lots of insights about today's topic, which is sources of support. So, we'll be talking about some of the various sources of support out there for professional endeavors, kind of for personal support, the more formal types of support and some of the informal types. So that'll cover, you know, what each of them are, how they differ, what types of situations you might use for these various roles and the importance of having different people in each of these elements. We'll also talk about some of those alternatives to the formal sources of support. And we're looking forward to all of the insights that Jada has to lend. So, join us for the next episode of season three.
Hi, Jada, thanks for joining us.
Jada Harris 1:12
Well, thank you Erica for inviting me. I'm glad to be here.
Erica D'Eramo 1:15
Yeah. So, you know, besides being an experienced business consultant and certified SCORE mentor, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Jada Harris 1:27
Well, let's see. I am currently in Houston, Texas, providing contract management and support services to small businesses. I've been doing that since 2007 as an entrepreneur. However, I do have a background in contract management, grant management from a higher education institution that allowed me to gain the 25 years of experience in grant and contract management that I now lend to my clients as well as my mentees through SCORE.
Erica D'Eramo 2:05
Cool. So, tell us a little bit about score, because I don't know that everybody knows about SCORE, and especially for those of us trying to forge our own paths, that can be a resource.
Jada Harris 2:15
Absolutely, and you know, it baffles me that people don't know about SCORE, especially because it is a free resource. SCORE is a national organization, so there is a chapter pretty much in every state, as well as major city in the United States. And we help businesses, everything from seed, meaning everything from when you have an idea, just an idea all the way to exit. And what I mean by help is that we have mentors with experience, practical experience within the field and expertise of every aspect of business, so on a human resources. If you needed to speak to someone that has a CPA background, in accounting, or excuse me, attorney background, then you will have access to those individuals who can provide you with mentoring sessions of based on your schedule for free. We also provide other resources like business templates, if you need to create a business plan, a financial plan, marketing plan. If you need to do business research, you can find that information on our website. We also provide webinars, both on demand as well as live webinars on various subjects. I just provided a QuickBooks webinar yesterday, that helped small businesses to understand QuickBooks Online, and how it can benefit their business. I am a QuickBooks ProAdvisor as well as a QuickBooks expert, which means that I do work for QuickBooks part time. And I use that information to help my clients navigate creating financials that they can use to obtain loans, as well as investors. So, SCORE, again, is a free resource here in Houston, our website is houston.score.org. And you can find all of those resources on our website. However, if you just want to look at the national organization and choose a Chapter, you could go to score.org.
Erica D'Eramo 4:32
That's actually how I originally crossed your path was through SCORE. So, and I also have a small business mentor through score as well. So, it's been a huge resource for me and a great source of support. So, in that vein, when we talk about these sources of support, there's kind of a few different buckets that get commonly used when we talk about them. And sometimes they get interchanged, the they're used interchangeably in a way that maybe blurs the lines a little bit. So, I thought it might be valuable for us to cover that since you and I cover large swaths of that chart, that Venn diagram in different, you know, in different parts of our lives. So, the five roles that we're going to cover today, the five kind of formal roles are mentor, sponsor, advocate, coach and consultant. I know that you, you act as a couple, you cover, you where a couple of those hats, right?
Jada Harris 5:43
So on any given Sunday.
Erica D'Eramo 5:47
So, starting with mentor, Jada how would you describe a mentor or a mentor relationship?
Jada Harris 5:53
Well, a mentor, and again, you know, you can do it formally, through a organization like SCORE, or mentor could be someone that you have in your life, in your area, that has a background in the area of expertise, if we're talking about business, because you can also have a mentor on a personal level too. But generally, if we're talking on a business level, you want someone that is preferably in the area of expertise that you're interested in. And those individuals are going to have a large amount of experience that they're willing to share with you freely. You know, they're, you know, I can't tell you how often, you know, people come to the understanding that they do need a mentor, and they believe that it should be structured, or some sort of payment structure or something to that effect. And really a mentorship is free advice to you, candid advice to you so that you can, you know, grow as an individual as a business, so on and so forth. You know, you don't necessarily need to have a paid mentorship, because the conflict with that is they're going to give you what you're paying for. Does that resonate?
Erica D'Eramo 7:36
Right. So, this an element of independence is crucial to the mentorship role versus like a client relationship?
Jada Harris 7:45
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I've served in, like you said, multiple roles, and I do have to switch hats, you know? I can't do certain things in certain roles, ethically, you know?
Erica D'Eramo 8:00
Yeah. So, we've also talked about a sponsorship role. So, how would you characterize a sponsor? You know, apart from a mentor, maybe what are some of the similarities and some of the differences?
Jada Harris 8:16
Okay, absolutely. So, you know, in a lot of people have not heard of a sponsor, or if they heard of a sponsor they think monetarily, yeah, this person is going to, you know, give me some money. Yeah, exactly. And that's not true. They may be your access to money or to financial resources, but they are an individual that champions you to gain momentum in your career. So, for example, if you work for a large corporation, this person will give their recommendation for you to advance to another position. Whereas a mentor is a person that could work in your organization, or could be your pastor or could be a neighborhood friend, that you would sit down and have a casual conversation with, and that will give you candid advice.
Erica D'Eramo 9:23
So a sponsor, I guess it's similar in that it's someone more senior, but different in that there's not going to be that same level of like candour that same engagement, it's somebody who, well, we make a differentiation here on the money side of things, but there is an investment right? They're like investing their reputation, their like, organizational clout capital, yeah, their brand. They're investing that in you and betting on you. So, they're kind of putting, giving you the backing for the other members of the organization to kind of give you opportunities, so, yeah. So, someone described it to me as like someone who will put your name in the room when you're not there, right?
Jada Harris 10:11
And you and you want to be cognizant of that. Because if you're not there, you you can't, you don't know what's being said, you know, and even though that person may have the best intentions for you, they may present you in the wrong, I don't want to say the wrong light, but the wrong way that you wouldn't necessarily do yourself. So, you do want to kind of, you know, investigate or interview your sponsor before, you know, you have someone vouch for you. You want that person to be in the same mindset as yourself.
Erica D'Eramo 10:50
Yeah, I think when you and I were discussing this topic, I shared a story about one time someone thought that they were doing a really big favor for me by putting me forward for a job to fill what they perceived as a gap in my experience, but it was in the absolute opposite direction of where I was trying to take my career. And I almost ended up just doing these, like this really detailed technical calculation work for a long time. And I thought, like I didn't, that's not what where I thought that was going. That's not what I wanted to do. So, I realized how impactful sponsors can be both for the positive and also, you know, sometimes in a way that's not aligned with your ultimate goals. So, to the extent possible, it can be really valuable to make sure that they understand what your intentions are, and you understand how how they're going to present you. Not always feasible, right? But...
Jada Harris 11:44
Absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 11:46
And then advocate is another one that I think, you know, we use that term in the world a lot. But as far as a source of support in our careers, how would you describe an advocate?
Jada Harris 12:01
So, the advocate is someone that is going to speak highly of you, and they don't have any gain from speaking highly from you, or of you. The sponsor could get a gain from you getting promoted.
Erica D'Eramo 12:24
Yeah, they're putting their backing there, right, just like that investment? It has dividends.
Jada Harris 12:29
Absolutely. Whereas an advocate, they're going to be your cheerleader, and they're going to talk across many attributes of yourself. So, they're not just going to talk about how great you are as a business person, but they're going to talk about how great you are as a person, as a individual. They're going to talk about you being you know, the greatest mom in the world, they're going to talk about your character. So, an advocate, and again, this person has no gain. So, if you can find they're very rare. If you can find someone that can be your advocate, you know, this is a person you're going to stick close to, you know, for, for your life. So, a lot of times it is someone personal, someone that you know, that, you know, could be a family member, because, you know, that's a long term relationship. But yeah, they're gonna have an influence in every area of your life.
Erica D'Eramo 13:35
Yeah. So, really like that personal cheerleading squad in a human, human package. So, we also mentioned coach, which, you know, I do coaching and you do coaching, too. And so, and we've done an entire episode on like, what coaching is and how to find a coach and the difference between a coach and a mentor. And I think here, I'll just highlight again, that the difference between a coach and some of these other kind of roles that we talked about, is that the coach is not going to be in a hierarchical position, right? The coach is not, they might have more experience than you, they might be in a more senior role, but that element doesn't come into the coaching relationship. In fact, sometimes it's like advised against having that element. And you will, usually a coach will be compensated. So, either if they're an internal coach, they're being compensated by the organization. Or if they're an external coach, you might be compensating them directly. So, they are there to like shine a mirror, or like shine a light, hold a mirror up, mixing my metaphors here. But there is that element of kind of it's all about you and your goals and holding that mirror up. It's still a paid position, so to speak.
Jada Harris 15:08
Yeah. And your coach is going to give you what you're asking for, they're going to give you, you know, they're going to do research, they're going to use their experience to support their research, and then give you what you're asking for. It should be bias. But because, especially because you're paying for it could be that it's not bias. And so, you know, especially if you're saying, you know, I want to be, you know, a lawyer one day, well, I'm going to coach you on how to become a lawyer, and make sure that I give you the yes and no's and the ins and outs. But I'm not going to tell you not to be a lawyer. You know, because this is what you want to do. So...
Erica D'Eramo 15:54
Yeah, that's true too. Yeah. It's very client led like, really coaching, like, as defined by the International Coaching Federation has very little to no advice, right? Because the coach is, is just shining that light, helping you support you to get to whatever those goals are. So, again, different from like a mentor, different from a sponsor, and the coach should not have any thing to gain by you succeeding, other than, obviously, we want our clients to succeed, but we shouldn't have any monetary tie to our clients succeeding, that would be a conflict of interest.
Jada Harris 16:31
Absolutely. And it would be not ethical to do that. Now, a mentor, because it's candid advice, they can tell you, you don't want to be a lawyer, that's not something, that's not the direction you want to go into, you should you know, become a I don't know, a scientists, you know, totally different direction, you know, and, you know, because they know you, or if they're not, you know, close to you, in that matter, they have experienced being an attorney, and they're telling you it's the wrong road. You know, again, they have nothing to gain whether you become a lawyer or not, but they're just giving you advice based on their experience, and really on their emotions, you know, because that could change, you know, a political climate may change and you know, what, we need more attorneys these days, you should become an attorney.
Erica D'Eramo 17:25
Yeah, it's true. I think, I would say I serve as a formal mentor as well. And I would say that, like my coaching practice has probably improved my mentoring. Because I, it definitely biases me to just ask more questions about like, so what is it about being a lawyer that is appealing, right, like, exploring that more, but you're right, being a mentor definitely has more to do with, like, guidance and insight, it's like sharing your insights and thoughts on things. So, that's where it might be similar to in some ways to a consultant, right, because like, consultant versus coach, a consultant is being paid to give advice, being paid to be the expert. And you and I are both consultants too.
Jada Harris 18:19
And similar to the coaching, which involves cheerleading, for sure, similar to the coaching, the consultant gets paid and does research to give you solid advice. But they will provide you with a, you know, this is not the best field to go into, because you're asking, you know, for advice at this point, based on statistics, this is not the best career you should you should go into, for example, or this is not the right business stream for your business. So, yeah, that's a difference, in my opinion of coaching versus consultant.
Erica D'Eramo 19:04
Yeah, and in terms of this topic of, you know, sources of support some of the areas that we might have a consultant or that you or I might serve in a source of support as a consultant would be like someone starting a small business who just actually needs to know like, these are the forms I need to file. These are the things I need to go check. These are the areas, this is how I create a marketing plan. And so that might come through a SCORE mentor, that might come through like a small business consultant. That could come from a variety of different sources, but in that case, it's paid. The consultant gets paid and they are not just more experienced, but they are an expert. The reason they're getting paid is that they have a background, they have the research, they have the expertise there.
Jada Harris 20:01
So what I will say about mentoring, which piggybacks off of what you just said, is as far as SCORE, what we can do is provide you with the mentoring. So, we can show you where to find the forms, we can tell you the process. We can, you know, bullet point, you know, do you know, 123, what you should do, but we can't do it for you.
Erica D'Eramo 20:26
I thnk that's another good point.
Jada Harris 20:28
Yeah, where as a consultant, like you said, through my business, for instance, I do provide contract management, mentoring, through SCORE as well as QuickBooks or bookkeeping, or accountant through SCORE. However, I can tell you 'til we're blue in the face about what it is, but ethically, I cannot do it for you. Through my business, all day long. That's, that's what you're hiring me for I can, I don't even have to tell you about getting certified, I'll do it for you, have it done for you by the end of the week. And you pay me and it's all done. Where as with SCORE, you know, we're having long, lengthy conversations on how to do it. And I really, I can't even go into detail on how it should be executed. I just have to, you know, tell you what I know about it.
Erica D'Eramo 21:20
Yeah. I mean, mentors don't carry liability insurance for mentoring, right? And consultants do for a reason, because we're giving advice, right? That's, that's part of it. And I'm charging accordingly for it. So, as we're, as you know, we're encountering these different areas where we might need to seek support, those are the things to be thinking about, right? Like, do I have the resources to pay for an expert? What's more valuable here, like my time or my money? Because there's finite amounts of each. Do I want to get advice? Or do I want somebody to help me understand my own answer? You know, that's...
Jada Harris 22:06
One of the things that I find as a benefit forSCORE and I tell my clients this, potential clients, mentees, if you are, you know, in business for yourself, or you're thinking about going to business resolving and you need to talk to an attorney, or you need to talk to a CPA, for an example, go to SCORE, it's free, you can have those long conversations with your SCORE mentors that happen to be attorneys or happen to be CPAs. Get all your ducks in a row, get all your questions answered, and go. And then when you have time and the money to pay for the attorney, you will go there educated, ready and armed with what you need from them that will save you a ton of money. Because as you know, attorneys and CPAs charge by the minute, not the hour, the minute.
Erica D'Eramo 23:03
A 15 minute phone call with an attorney better be well directed, because...
Jada Harris 23:08
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 23:09
You're gonna get an invoice. `
Jada Harris 23:11
Anywhere from three to $500 or more.
Erica D'Eramo 23:14
So, we've talked about some of these formal sources for and I have some, you know, follow up questions on that. But what are some of the less formal sources of support out there, that you know of?
Jada Harris 23:24
Well, that I know of and I really appreciate is managers. So, if we're talking about, you know, your career, or even if you're in business, you're entrepreneur, yourself, talk to people at the level that you want to be. So, a lot of people, you know, when they interview, or they're wanting to move to another position, if you are interested in being at a higher level, then your manager is a source of support.
Erica D'Eramo 24:03
Yeah.
Jada Harris 24:03
I wouldn't go to them as candid as a mentor, or as a, even as a sponsor, you know, because they're your manager, they have, you know, responsibilities that they have to, you know, abide by as your manager. But you can use them, pick their brain, ask them questions, especially if they're very supportive. So, yeah, if you're an entrepreneur, I would, you know, seek out other entrepreneurs that have, you know, are in your shoes or have been in your shoes, as, you know, a level of support.
Erica D'Eramo 24:40
Yeah, I think managers, especially those that we want to emulate can be great sources of support, as long as we understand, like you said, what their delivery needs are as well. So, there's a little bit of tension there sometimes. Peer support and like peer networking, networking, that's been a big source of support for me, I know, just going through, like some of the professional development programs that I've done recently, like that cohort, each cohort of each program I go through, you pick up a few other contacts that you can just ping them on WhatsApp, or send them a message and say, "Hey, I had this idea come across, I'd love to chat it through with you get your insights, get your thoughts", that's been or even just somebody to empathize with, right? It's not always problem solving. Sometimes we just need someone who understands the struggle, and can talk to us and empathize. So, that's another, you know, informal source of support that's been valuable for me. I've been really involved in a in an organization called Women Offshore, which is a nonprofit, I served on their board for a period of time, I've been really involved and the thing I love so much about that organization is it's really a network. So, if you're struggling, or you've got something you're trying to sort out, you could just hop on the Facebook page and put it out there and all of a sudden, you've got people all over the world who are like lending their support, whether it's just, you know, a virtual high five or a hug, or like, here's what worked for me, or here's the person I talked to, and it's, it's been hugely valuable.
Jada Harris 26:28
Yeah, absolutely. I've had similar experiences that not only, you know, helped me with my career, but also helped me with one of my former business, it's a business I have on the back burner. But in the national organization that I was involved in, this individual was a former Procter & Gamble employee that became an entrepreneur of two diverse businesses. And so he, I mean, just immediately, just, you know, took me under his wing, and really just said, "Whatever you need Jada to take this to the next level, just let me know". And so just conversations, and then ultimately, because it was a health care, home health care business, he needed my services for his mother. So, he ultimately became a client. So, these sources of support can mean so much more for you. And, you know, similar to what we were saying about, you know, being a sponsor, and being an advocate, you know, as it relates to entrepreneurship, these individuals can do the same type of support for you as well.
Erica D'Eramo 27:45
Yeah, the relationships can often kind of morph over time too, like, I think, someone that I, you know, been working with as, as like a peer networking person kind of ended up becoming a client and ended up also working with me and they were in a consulting role. And obviously, you want to make sure like, the lines are clear, you understand who's in which hat at any given time and be clear about that. Otherwise, that's where like, you know, ethical considerations come in. But as long as that's clear, there might be like years in between those elements. But people who were, people who... and the mentoring can shift, right? Like, there's such a thing called reverse mentoring that is hugely valuable, especially as the workforce is evolving. Sometimes it's more senior people that actually need to be hearing more from more junior people rather than the reverse, right?
Jada Harris 28:47
Yeah. Especially as you know, because of technology, as you know, organizations grow and technology becomes more and more prevalent, you know, using the younger generation as a resource is necessary.
Erica D'Eramo 29:04
Yeah, yeah. I totally agree. And I think there was a big reckoning as well. After the George Floyd murder, I think that senior people in organizations finally, I'm not saying they follow through on this, but I think there are a lot of people who realize like, oh, maybe I need to stop and shush for a moment and listen to what the people in my organization are saying, and I saw a big influx of reverse mentoring happening right around then. I don't know if that's kept up since, I hope it has because it's, again, so, so valuable, that direct line of communication through the organization.
Jada Harris 29:45
Absolutely, you know, internal resources are, you know, invaluable, you know. As people, you know, move through the ranks, you know, in corporations it sometimes gets lost because you're you're looking at hierarchy, right? But when we have things that happen that we don't understand, because either we grew up in a different demographic or a different time period, you have to reach back, you have to reach back and listen to the conversations and not just listen with your ear, but listen with your heart, especially in this scenario.
Erica D'Eramo 30:27
Yeah. So, we've talked a little bit about how we might use these different sources of support, and some of the things that we might think about when we're choosing which source of support would be most impactful for us, or most valuable, what are some of the traits that you think are most important when you're looking for someone in one of these positions?
Jada Harris 30:57
I know for me, especially as we talk about consultants, coaches, I need for them to shoot from the hip, I need them to be direct, especially if I'm paying you. I need you to tell me what I need to know, I don't have time to kind of, you know, you know, listen to the stories, you know, that kind of thing. So, a lot of people may choose a mentor because they're the nicest person in the whole world, or, you know, or because they are the CEO of the company. Just because they're CEO doesn't mean that they have all of the knowledge, they may have become CEO because they inherited the business, okay. So, you know, there's a lot of wealth in people that were in the trenches. When you can find a mentor, a consultant, a advocate, a coach, that has been in the trenches, that is way and when I mean been in the trenches, they've walked the walk, they been where you want to go, or they've been where you have been, and they can cosign some of the assumptions, or some of the ideas that you have, that you know, you have in your mind, the talents that you want to exploit in yourself, they can speak to that and speak to it, honestly. So, that's important to me. Even if you're rude, my pastor tells a story all the time about when he was trying to acquire the building, and the person, his biggest advocate, his biggest sponsor, champion, curse like a sailor. And he didn't care that he was a pastor of a church, he just used all the colorful words that he possibly could. But he said, "You know what I like you. So, I'm going to sponsor you, I'm going to champion you, I'm going to be the person". And you know, a lot of people may shy away from that type of person, you know, but if that person has your best interest in mind, you know, if you can look past the colorful language, you might be able to get to the point where you want to be, you know, that's just an example that I have.
Erica D'Eramo 33:22
Yeah, I think like compatibility, what I hear you describe is like, there is a level of like compatibility there of, they need to be able to operate in a way that you can understand what they're saying and it's towards your goals. There's like, there is just this like, little, I don't know, chemistry test in many of these cases, let's say with a sponsor, but more so like with anyone where you have to show vulnerability, or you need to work tightly with them. Like consultants, sometimes when you bring in a consultant, it's like on a project and you're putting in long hours together and you want the product that they deliver to be, you know, you're paying dearly for it. So you want it to be what you envision and align with your ethos. I think some of the things that we would assume are valuable, things like having the same background as us or the same, like being able to see ourselves in the person sometimes can be a double edged sword, right? Like it can sometimes be helpful in that they, you know, that they understand the struggles, they've watched that same path. And also, again, it depends on the role, right? And also, they might be suffering from the same blind spots that you are or the same lack of connections in the organization or the same, like, I don't know, the same blocks that you're facing as well. So, sometimes mixing it up can be valuable and sometimes choosing someone who really, you see yourself.
Jada Harris 35:06
Yeah. You know, and there's nothing wrong with having two of each.
Erica D'Eramo 35:10
Yeah. Yeah. There's no loyalty. It's not monogamy.
Jada Harris 35:17
Right, exactly. This is one of the relationships that you can have more than one. Diversity is key, like, you know, you definitely have to have people that think different than you. That's how major corporations advance. The reason why Procter & Gamble is one of the number one companies in the world is because they are truly a diverse company. They don't focus, I mean, they were birthed in Cincinnati, Ohio, but they have organizations all over the world. And so and they use that diversity in order for the company to grow. So, you think of yourself as a corporation, and including that diversity in your hemisphere, as well, as far as you know, having a male mentor, if you're a female, having African American mentor, if you are Latino. So, there's something to be said about having diversity. It's how our economy has grown. The fact that we're now global, you can't dismiss it. So, factor that into your own life as well.
Erica D'Eramo 36:37
Yeah. So, we talked about, like, you know, that compatibility part, one of the things you and I discussed that I thought was really interesting was, you know, can you fire one of these people? I mean, definitely consultant you can fire and definitely a coach, right, because they're paid, but, how might it go if this person's not paid?
Jada Harris 37:00
And definitely, don't be afraid to fire your consultant or coach, because a lot of people, you know, feel obligated or dedicated, even though the relationship is not the same. So, you know, and honestly, it's business, you can't take it personal because businesses grow, right? People grow. And so if you've outgrown someone, or you've outgrown what you need from that mentor, sponsor, advocate, coach, consultant, if you've outgrown what you are receiving from them, there's nothing wrong with firing them with love. Okay?
Erica D'Eramo 37:39
With love, yeah, and end the relationship we should say.
Jada Harris 37:43
Exactly. And that's discernment. You know, because this is your life, this is your career and you don't want anyone to stall you or hold you back because the only person that you can blame is yourself. So, you have to be assertive and make those decisions, and use that discernment to say, okay, this has not, you can have that conversation, you know, this relationship, or this mentoring, you know, situation is, you know, not serving me anymore. And, you know, maybe we can try something different. And if they're not willing to, or if it's truly just outgrown itself, then it's just time to move on and find a new mentor, or find a new sponsor with whatever needs you have, especially as it relates to sponsors and coaches and consultants, you definitely are going to... because you're growing, prayerfully, if they're doing what they're supposed to do, you're growing. And so you're going to need a greater coach, a greater consultant, a greater sponsor, because now you're at a level higher than them. And so therefore, you know, you're gonna need someone else to support.
Erica D'Eramo 38:57
That brings up an interesting point. And one thing that I've seen is, at least from my lived experience, one thing I've seen is that people who were my mentors early in my career that I just like, looked up to so much and got such great support and advice from, once I moved well beyond that, especially if there were periods of time where I hadn't interacted with that person as much or they weren't as present to be able to see that growth. When we would reconnect, and this has happened many times, like, they weren't there to see the growth and so they're still thinking that you are the way you were before, right? Like when we go to see our parents. They're like, "don't forget to wear a coat" and you're like, "Mom, I have a mortgage. I'm 40 years old, like I can do this, right? But like that relationship was established when there was a big power differential.
Jada Harris 39:59
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 39:59
And so changing the dynamic is tough if they aren't growing with you, and that's not like evolving over time. So, so yeah, sometimes it's time to say like, thank you and...
Jada Harris 40:12
Yeah. Or organically, it just grows. The mentor that I mentioned earlier, you know, where eventually he became my client, you know, we interacted, you know, a couple of more times, and since then I've moved away from Cincinnati, I may have touched base on, you know, LinkedIn, but organically, it just, it grew apart. And that's okay, you know, no harm, no foul on either end knowing that, you know, if I needed to reach out in the future, or I just wanted to check in, you know, it's still an option. But, you know, sometimes it just organically happens.
Erica D'Eramo 40:47
So, Jada, what are some organizations that come to mind, or like types of organizations that come to mind when you're trying to find some of the sources of support?
Jada Harris 40:57
Absolutely. So, free is me, most times. So, I'm looking for organizations that are offering free advice like SCORE. There are other organizations, the SBA is a free organization. You know, there's other types of organizations that can help you that is related either to your career, or to your demographics, that can be a source for you within the community or nationally. You know, always think about growth. So, if you're thinking about, you know, becoming an entrepreneur, you definitely want to connect with a national organization. Because as your business grows, you want that organization to be with you as it grows. However, if you are, you know, starting out, and you need, you know, to be affiliated with an organization, your chamber of commerce is a good resource for you. Now, that does cost money, most times, a good chunk of change. But it is an excellent resource, because it's local. And so they understand what you need as a local business owner or a local person who lives in the community and is looking for career advancement.
Erica D'Eramo 42:24
Yeah, yeah. Shout out to the Chamber of Commerce, we have an entire episode on Chamber of Commerce involvement, actually, which was a good episode, if you want to check that one out it was with Cliff Killam. So, probably season two. Yeah, I think the Chamber is a good one SCORE, you mentioned, there's like trade organizations. So, I've been a part of Women's Energy Network or like Society of Women Engineers, or Society of Mechanical Engineer, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, or even International Coaching Federation, that's another one where you can find that peer network, you can find the mentor element of it. I know, my current mentor coach, member of ICF, as well. And there's also like affinity groups. So, within your company, those other organizations are usually externally have lots of either corporate members or individual members, but there are affiliate groups like your LGBTQ group or your Women's Network at the company you work for, or I guess even outside of that, right? I think, were you, you're a member of the National Black MBAs?
Jada Harris 43:44
Yes, I was Chapter President in Ohio,
Erica D'Eramo 43:48
Not just a member , leadership.
Jada Harris 43:51
Cause I'm the president. Yeah, no, yes, I was with that organization, I believe, for five years, served in different roles. And again, that's where I met the mentor that I mentioned earlier, was able to travel all over the United States, going to different conferences, meeting people all over the world, which encouraged me with my business. It's being affiliated with an organization. Like I was also, you know, active in my alumni association. So, I want to reach back. Yeah, absolutely. And then also, you know, as we talk about affiliated organizations within your corporation, that's a great way to network cause a lot of people they think, okay, I know that I need a mentor. I know I need a coach. I know, I know, I know, I need all of these different people to be involved, especially if you're in corporate. If you're a corporate, it's a dire situation that you get these people involved in your advancement in your career, you can't do it by yourself. That's an absolute, you can't do anything by yourself, you need community. But, through these affiliated organizations, it allows you to have the sidebar conversations, you can't necessarily do it during your job because you don't see that person on a normal basis, or it's, you know, not an opportunity to have conversations. But through these affiliated organizations, you can have those relaxed conversations, you can meet up with people that you don't see that's on, you know, the fifth floor, that could, you know, help you with your career or help you make decisions as far as advancing your career or if you want to become an entrepreneur.
Erica D'Eramo 45:46
Yeah, I'll give another shout out for organizations like Women Offshore, who have entire mentoring programs incorporated in them. And they provide that for free. But you know, using just the sponsorship funds and the fundraising that they do, they put on a mentorship program, and they match mentors and mentees. And really do work to make sure that like mentors are supported and mentees are supported. And that I think, is critical, because I don't know how often I've been like assigned a mentor at work and that person, like puts in the calendar once a quarter to get coffee. And it's like super casual, but nothing really changes. And they're nice, but kind of like just to catch up. Versus mentors who get training on how to be good mentors, have structured check ins, have kind of a framework to work from. I'm not saying all mentors should be like that, but having someone in your life that has that training can be really valuable. And so groups that have mentorship programs incorporated, can be huge, especially because it'll get you out of that line of reporting where everybody knows each other. And so you can be really candid about things that are going on at work that maybe you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with a mentor who isn't the same organization.
Jada Harris 47:10
Absolutely, and that's key, because you don't want to share everything with everybody. Everybody's not your friend. I'm just telling you very basics at this point, right? Because, I mean, I was very naive, I didn't grow up with a background, like my parents weren't in corporate. So, I didn't know same, you know, the ins and outs, I just, you know, I knew that I needed to go to work and this is what my background was in. And it's a whole, it's a whole nother world, when you go into corporate or into any organization, and you need to understand the acumen, the business acumen that, you know, goes along with working in corporate. So, you know, knowing those ins and outs, and having people that truly support you and that can speak, you know, like you like, like we describe for each role is highly important.
Erica D'Eramo 48:08
Yeah, absolutely. So, we've covered kind of the different types of support, we've covered different challenges that might arise and different organizations where we can find these types of people, whether that's the kind of formal roles or the informal roles of peer support and networking. What else do you think, you know, what are some of your, sort of closing thoughts on this topic? What do you think people's takeaway should be?
Jada Harris 48:44
It's important, and I said this earlier, you know, this is your career, this is your, you know, journey, and you have to be in charge of it. And you have to make decisions as to who is going to be in your area, in your six feet area now, you know, speaking of COVID, you know, in your six feet, who is going to influence you? And that includes, you know, the people that are put in front of you, like you can't control who your manager is, you know?
Erica D'Eramo 49:19
Right.
Jada Harris 49:20
But you can make a decision on how they're going to influence you. So, it's very important who you allow to lead you. Because ultimately, again, you're responsible for your destiny. So, that's what I would like to leave with.
Erica D'Eramo 49:39
I think the other part of that you said that I just want to amplify is this concept of like, you can't do it alone. It does take community, like, needing support, needing to reach out to people that's not just normal, it's the way you're going to succeed and thrive and avoiding that, for the sake of, I don't know, avoiding vulnerability or avoiding seeming like you don't know something or weakness, just sets us up for more struggle.
Jada Harris 50:14
I'm an introvert. So I...
Erica D'Eramo 50:17
Same. Same girl, same.
Jada Harris 50:20
So, if I can stay in the house, hey, I loved COVID time it was not a problem for me. But you know, if I want to be successful, if I want to accomplish the goals that I set for myself, I got to include community, I got to reach out, I got to be comfortable in uncomfortable environments, and a lot of times that's having conversations with people who've already been there.
Erica D'Eramo 50:48
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm really glad that these roles in these organizations brought us together and had us cross paths, because it's been great working with you wearing all of the different hats. And...
Jada Harris 51:06
Absolutely, it's been what, two years now?
Erica D'Eramo 51:09
Yeah. And I don't know, what is time? Who knows? Yeah, probably about two years. So yeah.
Jada Harris 51:18
It's going on two years I think.
Erica D'Eramo 51:22
And not only have you been supportive as a mentor, and then, you know, as a business professional as well, but also kind of helped me understand how to better use SCORE to find a mentor through SCORE, that was a good match for me. And so, I also want to acknowledge my SCORE, mentor, Toby, she's amazing.
Jada Harris 51:48
She's a rock star.
Erica D'Eramo 51:49
Yeah, she's a rock star. She's great. In fact, I just met with her this week. And she is probably a couple of those things, but also my advocate, I think, and she's always kind of cheering me on whenever I'm like, Toby, I'm tired. And she's like, you got it. Yeah, so um, I'm yeah, I'm really glad our paths crossed. And I hope that this episode was helpful for people who, you know, maybe need some support, and aren't sure whether they need a mentor or a coach or a sponsor or an advocate.
Jada Harris 52:25
Or all of them.
Erica D'Eramo 52:26
Or all of them. Yeah, um, you know, actually, I have one last question before we wrap. And this is always the thing, when people ask, like, how do I get a sponsor And while I say it's a question, I think this is always a controversial topic. So...
Jada Harris 52:48
Yes, yes.
Erica D'Eramo 52:50
What are your thoughts on that one?
Jada Harris 52:53
It's a slippery slope. Boy, it is because you know one and again, you don't want to get with the wrong person. You don't want you know, in all of the roles, you don't, you know, discernment is very important. But you know, it is an interview process, you have the right to ask questions. And if it feels right, if all box boxes check, meaning that, you know, this person serves in this role, they've, you know, contributed to this organization, they support of women engineers, then, you know, you make the decision to have that conversation with them. And, you know, especially, as it relates to corporate, everyone has that understanding that they're going to have to serve in one of those roles at some point in their career to someone else. That's just the name of the game. So, when you have that conversation with them, you know, depending on the person, you know, like I said, I like to shoot from the hip, you know, you know, some, you know, some people may not be receptive of, you know, can you be my sponsor? You know, some of them want to have that, you know, easygoing conversation of, you know, what's going on in your career right now? And how can they help?
Erica D'Eramo 54:14
Yeah, yeah, I think that it's the difference between a sponsor and a mentor, although, I mean, I've heard things about this for both roles, like you can't choose a mentor. I would disagree. I think you can absolutely. And you don't even need to call it out explicitly and say, will you be my mentor?
Jada Harris 54:34
Right.
Erica D'Eramo 54:35
People serve in those roles informally, sometimes. And you can always say to somebody like, you, I see you as a mentor, you know, your advice has been so valuable to me. I respect your opinion. And so I see you in that, you hold that esteem in my life. Sorry, go ahead.
Jada Harris 54:55
I actually have a prime example. I, you know, interacted with individual major corporation that he runs, owns, entrepreneur I admire, you know, the work that he's done. And I did do that, I went to him directly, I want you to be my mentor. Oh, no, no, no, I, you know, I'll you know, you know, I that's just not something I feel comfortable with. And because I was so direct, you know, even though the past what, you know, year to 18 months, he had been giving me advice. He had been talking to me, and then, you know, telling me, you know, the great things about entrepreneurship. But as soon as I put that label on him, he shied away. Now, he didn't stop him from mentoring me, honestly, he just continues to do it. But he didn't want that label. He didn't want to have to meet with me quarterly or you know, all that good stuff.
Erica D'Eramo 55:56
Yeah. It's like a level of responsibility and work that goes into mentorship.
Jada Harris 56:00
Absolutely, absolutely. I just finished mentoring a mentee through SCORE about an hour ago. And, you know, we need to set up the meet again, there's a responsibility that comes within you have to be, you know, timely, you have to, as far as being a mentor, you have to be knowledgeable, you have to be supportive. You have to be, you know, a source for someone, so you can't let them down. You can't not show up. You can't, you know, and so it's a heavy, it's a wait, I don't want that to be something that prevents you from choosing a mentor or going after a mentor. But just keep that in mind that there's a responsibility as a mentor and a mentee. I also want to, there's something you said earlier about mentorship. There's a mentoring program that we have through Perry V University, and their students who are student helpers that we have connected to resources like FedEx. So, one of our students is a mentee of FedEx CEO or not CEO, I'm sorry, VP, apologize. Yeah. And I mean, that's major, you're a student who's connected to a VP. Now at, with that being said, that student was able to get a job through FedEx, because of that relationship. So, that's how this mentoring happens. But, and some of the other students have mentors through other organizations, and they're saying, well, my mentor, you know, he didn't call me and he didn't, you know, he didn't, you know, make the connection that I thought we were going to make. And, again, this is your journey, you know, this person is volunteering their time, if they are not living up to the agreement, or to the time that you've allotted, then you should find another mentor, but also be be proactive, you know, call them, email them, you know, they're busy people. I mean, the student who got the VP of FedEx, you know, that mentor was very, very responsive. And that was a successful connection. However, when you know, and that, you know that individuals busy. So, you know, if you happen, and you have a mentor that has, you know, been, you know, non responsive or busy one, either find a new one, or keep trying to reach out.
Erica D'Eramo 58:44
Yeah, I think this is some of the differences between organic kind of mentor development and the inorganic facilitated programs. One of the reasons I am a proponent of going the program route is that there's usually an administrator that you can say, like, I think maybe this isn't a match this person, you know, might be oversubscribed, maybe we can rematch or try again in a year. And there are avenues to adjust. And I also think, on the mentor side of things, if you're successful in a company, you've got people lined up out the door trying to get you to be their mentor, and people only have so much bandwidth and when they oversubscribe over that bandwidth, that's when you get people who meet with you barely once a quarter, right? Because it maybe they've taken on too much. And it's not, I think sometimes when people ask like, will you be my mentor? Be prepared like you might geta no. And maybe the best way is to just develop the relationship of like showing that person the work that you do, asking them here and there for their opinion on something and it can develop organically. I think this sponsorship often has to develop organically because you might, you have no control, like we said before, over what somebody says about you when you're not in the room. So, while it's good to be intentional about how that relationship is cultivated, and making sure that if you have a sponsor, and that they understand where you're at, and it's somebody that you know, resonates with you, have the same ethos, fundamentally, it's really up to that person for like, whether they're going to sponsor you or not, I mean, you can ask like, can you say nice things about me behind my back, but they're not, they're not really obligated to do that, unless there's some sort of formal program in a company to say make sure that these, especially when underrepresented groups we've seen, don't get sponsored. Sometimes organizations will say, like, we need to make sure that somebody is looking after their career in the same way that people from the in group, you know, formerly the good old boys group.
Jada Harris 1:01:06
Yep.
Erica D'Eramo 1:01:06
They had that, they had somebody looking after their career making sure that they were, they were getting pulled through. So how do we replicate that?
Jada Harris 1:01:14
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 1:01:17
So the topic of like, can you enlist a mentor, can you enlist a sponsor? The answer is probably like, you can try.
Jada Harris 1:01:27
Right. And again, like you said, if you get a no or if they're unresponsive, it's okay. It's all right. You can move on to someone else, there'll be someone else.
Erica D'Eramo 1:01:41
Being graceful in the acceptance of that no, will probably do more to further your career.
Jada Harris 1:01:45
Absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 1:01:46
Than being sad about it. So...
Jada Harris 1:01:48
Absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 1:01:49
Um, well, I think we've really covered a lot of ground during this episode. So, thank you so much, Jada, for all of your insights and your, your background and expertise in these areas. We really appreciate you joining us tonight.
Jada Harris 1:02:07
Thank you. I appreciate the invitation, I enjoyed the conversation. And I look forward to hearing more about Two Piers and how they are developing in the community.
Erica D'Eramo 1:02:20
Thanks. And for anyone looking to find us you can certainly find us at our website, which is twopiersconsulting.com. Or on any of the primary social media platforms. So we're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn at @twopiersconsult. And we look forward to seeing you next episode.