In this week's episode we sit down with return guest Alisa Tijerina who switches it up and asks us all of her questions about coaching: what it is, who it's meant for, how to find a coach, and more. If you've ever wondered what exactly coaching entails and whether it's right for you, this is your episode!

Transcript below:

Erica D'Eramo 0:10

Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers podcast, Season Two. Today we're going to switch it up a little, we have a return guest, our first return guest, Alisa Tijerina, who joined us at the beginning of the pandemic, is back to join us again. And today we're going to change roles a bit. So instead of me asking the questions, Alisa has a bunch of questions for me about coaching, and what coaching is and involves. And so we thought we should just record this conversation and make it available for our podcast listeners, because we get a lot of questions about what is coaching.

Erica D'Eramo 0:54

So welcome, Alisa.

Alisa Tijerina 0:57

Thank you, Erica. I'm glad to be back.

Erica D'Eramo 0:59

Yeah, it's good to have you here. So what are some of your questions?

Alisa Tijerina 1:04

So I know you're a coach, tell me what, what is a coach?

Erica D'Eramo 1:07

Yeah, I mean, we get this question all the time. A coach can mean a lot of different things. In this context, we're not talking about a sports coach, because that's somebody who kind of gives people directions and, and kind of tells people what to do. And that's actually the opposite of the type of coaching that we're talking about. So what we're talking about is what the International Coaching Federation defines as partnering with clients, so a coach partners with their client, in a thought provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential. So coaching, as defined by ICF, often unlocks previously untapped sources of imagination, productivity, and leadership. So it's really about two peers, there's not a hierarchy in coaching, two peers coming together. And the coach can shine a light for the client. I really liked an analogy presented to me by one of my instructors, that, you know, the coach walks alongside the client and just shines a flashlight to help the client decide where they want to go and what their decisions are. But it's very much client driven and client led, and the coach is there to help facilitate.

Alisa Tijerina 2:24

Very cool. Okay, so what is not coaching?

Erica D'Eramo 2:28

Yeah, there are a lot of things that look like coaching that are not actually coaching. So sometimes what we do in coaching can look a lot like therapy, because there's a lot of questions. There's a lot of introspection, but it's not therapy. So therapy looks backwards, right, therapy is looking at previous events and experiences and, and it is in the context of working with a professional therapist who is certified. And, and sometimes in a clinical setting. So therapy is more, you know, backwards looking to address current issues. Whereas coaching is very much forward, focused, looking at your goals and what you need to do to be able to achieve those goals. The other thing that coaching is not that it often gets confused with is it's not mentoring, because again, mentoring has a hierarchy to it like a mentor is usually a more experienced person, a mentor will give advice, coaches really kind of try to stay away from giving advice, because then it's coming from the coach. And the coach is essentially telling the client, I know better than you. And we don't want that in coaching. There's a great TED talk that addresses this by someone in the coaching worlds called Michael Bungay Stanier. And his TED Talk is called The Advice Monster. So I highly recommend looking at The Advice Monster, you'll probably never view advice the same way again. And then coaching is not consulting. So again, consulting is kind of giving solutions and being the expert. And a lot of times when people think that they're looking for a coach, what they're actually looking for is someone to tell them what the answers are. So if that's what you're looking for, you should probably find a mentor or a consultant. But if what you want is to discover the answers, and have someone help guide you through that, through kind of a developed process, then a coach is a great place to start.

Alisa Tijerina 4:30

Wow, thanks. I didn't realize there were that many different options. So tell me about coaches. What, what is, what kind of coaches are there and what kind of coach are you?

Erica D'Eramo 4:44

There's really a massive spectrum of types of coaches. We hear a lot about life coaches. We certainly hear a lot about you know, sports coaches, which we said are kind of excluded from this conversation. But there are fitness coaches who again will pair you know, partner with a client to reach their goals. And there are people who work in very specific niches. So stuff like transition, transitioning into different careers, transitioning from perhaps taking a career break to going back into the workforce, transitioning into a different life change. So maybe having kids and trying to balance work in life, or even transitioning geographically. So one coach that I know specializes in people repatriating after expat assignments or international assignments. So there can be very specific niches. My niche that I am focused on is kind of twofold. I like to work with clients who are in really challenging work environments, specifically, people who are kind of one of the only, and then name your demographic. So one of the only women, one of the only people of color, so people who are kind of facing pretty challenging environments. And then the other piece of my, you know, client pool is people who are working to change that. So people working in a diversity, equity and inclusion space to try to, you know, make change, sustainable change in their organizations. So those are those are the two areas that I'm focused on.

Alisa Tijerina 6:21

Yeah. Wow. Thank you. So another question. What, so do you have to get certifications like what what makes you a coach?

Erica D'Eramo 6:30

There are plenty of coaches out there who don't go through any sort of certification. And, and there are pros and cons, sometimes it's very specific, and they don't need that. And a lot of times that type of coach may be providing a mixture of coaching and consulting, or coaching and mentoring. I think that there is some value in finding coaches that do have a certification for a couple different reasons. So in order to get a certification through a body, like the international coaching Federation, or ICF, you have to go through a really rigorous curriculum. The curriculum I did was 70 hours of class time. And there are really standard competencies that they make sure that you fully understand and embed. And not only that, you have to do a lot of back and forth coaching, so you get to be the client quite a bit. So you're both growing, because you're getting lots of coaching, you're receiving lots of coaching, but you also understand then what it's like to be sitting in that client seat, and you can really empathize with the client experience. There's also some compe... competency thresholds, so you have to be able to record and submit a transcript that is assessed by the governing body and sit through a knowledge assessment test. So you know, there are some there's some thresholds to me as far as competency goes, and accumulation of you know, a certain set number of hours. But I think one of the most important things about working with someone who certifies through a governing body is just that they have to sign up to a code of ethics. So they're held accountable to a code of ethics, and there is recourse if there's a breach of that code of ethics. So that's one thing that I think is really valuable.

Alisa Tijerina 8:21

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I, when I think about coaching in the business context, it makes me I feel like it's got a little bit of a negative connotation. Is, you know, like, somebody has a problem, and then they need a coach like, so. Can you, you know, tell me your thoughts on that?

Erica D'Eramo 8:38

Yeah, it's been seen as sort of like a remedial solution in the past that, you know, somebody is kind of ready to get kicked out the door, they've had complaints filed or they've had performance issues, and sort of as a last resort we'll hire a coach for them. That's becoming a thing of the past. I think coaching was not really intended for that necessarily, and, and it presents all sorts of problems when when you have a client who perhaps doesn't necessarily have the backing and support of their organization. Coaching really does best when you have someone who has a high potential, has a high commitment, wants to do the work, knows that they want to grow and has goals. So when it's goal oriented, and positively focused on achieving those goals, rather than rectifying kind of negative things. So if I am going to work with a client, I do an intake to make sure that we're in the right headspace to be able to have an effective relationship and that should you know, that's pretty typical.

Alisa Tijerina 9:46

Yeah, yeah. I guess it is a lot of work for the for the client to and I guess the pair. Okay, so now say I'm ready to sign up to get a coach. What should I expect?

Erica D'Eramo 10:03

So, coaching engagements can take a lot of different forms. But generally they'll follow a framework that involves you know, that intake, understanding each other, and setting goals and then setting kind of a pathway to get to those goals and doing lots of check ins. So that that's kind of a typical coaching engagement, and it will usually last over several months. That's not to say that there can't be one on... one off coaching sessions. I've certainly been the client in plenty of one off coaching sessions, and I've, I've done plenty of one off coaching sessions. But when there can be an arc to the coaching engagement, it can be really powerful, because you can see, you know, over the span of weeks and months, how well the progress is being made. And you can redirect. So a lot of times what you think you want to focus on with your coach will evolve, and you realize, oh, that wasn't, that might have been the presenting issue. But that's not the real issue. So it can look different. And if you work with a company, if if you want to find a coach and you go through your company to find a coach, and the company sponsors that a lot of times there will be like a 360 involved, that speaks to some of your stakeholders, some of your peers, direct reports, your manager, etc. so that you get a full picture of what the perceptions are, for your strengths and weaknesses. And that will usually have, you know, a close out 360 as well to see what kind of progress you've made and potentially updates with the employer. So so it can look a little different if it's a corporate coaching, engagement, or if it's an individual private coaching engagement.

Alisa Tijerina 11:48

So I actually got assigned a coach through work, everybody did on my entire team, and they were doing it through the whole company. And my experience with that. I mean, the person was nice, but we were on way different time zones. They were in Europe, I was in America, we had three conversations, I didn't feel like I got anything out of it.

Erica D'Eramo 12:09

Yeah.

Alisa Tijerina 12:09

It just felt like a waste, it felt like a waste of money, personally. And that was maybe two to three years ago. And then just this year, I got put into a different type of role that's outside of my kinda what my past expertise had has been in, and I've asked for a coach. And it's just like, so hearing you say this, it I was I was not in a space where I felt like I needed a coach and it wasn't... and that experience just was wasn't really helpful. And now I'm in a space where I feel like I want it and I'm pulling it...

Erica D'Eramo 12:48

And probably struggling to get...

Alisa Tijerina 12:50

...and struggling to get one! Yeah. And struggling to get one. So how do I get one?

Erica D'Eramo 12:54

Yeah, I mean, these are all good questions.

Alisa Tijerina 12:56

Where do you find them?

Erica D'Eramo 12:57

Um, first, I just want to go back and explore the previous experience you had with coaching, though, which I think is not atypical. And one of the most important things that you establish in coaching upfront in a relationship is trust, and safety. And so if you guys are dialing in from very different time zones, and perhaps just like it's a bit rushed, or you don't have that, you know, trust and safety built in, it can feel transactional, and you don't develop that like real deep seated trust, where you can be super vulnerable, be super authentic with that person. So things like, you know, I would never tell somebody to do a coaching session when they're hungry, you know, those base needs to be met and needs have to be met, it takes a lot out of you to be on the client side and the coaching side. So you really want to be like rested and fed when you can be. So yeah, that I'm sorry, you had a negative experience. I think we're trying to kind of change the perception there. How you can find a coach, though, is, is a great question. Um, a lot of times, companies will say, you know, we don't need to hire an external coach just find, find the coaching internally. There is some expert in the company that can help you. And I understand that that's like well intended advice. And also, it's probably a bit misguided.

Alisa Tijerina 14:23

That is exactly what I'm being told now.

Erica D'Eramo 14:26

Yeah. I'm not surprised. Um, I think that you run into all sorts of interesting complications when that person is within your organization because it puts in questions, sometimes the trust and the objectivity because perhaps they are within your reporting line. That's never something you really want to have. I think leaders should certainly develop coaching habits and coaching mentality. I think that that's kind of an element of being a great leader and your clients should not be your direct reports because there's a absolute conflict of interest there. So it introduces potential conflicts of interest. And also that person has not been trained in how to handle coaching, and how to progress, you know, a client. So I would push back on that. And I think if you want to find a coach, and your organization doesn't have an avenue for you to pursue that you can find one on your own. There are plenty of resources out there to find coaches, there are plenty of niches, like we discussed to meet exactly the needs that you're looking for.

Alisa Tijerina 15:36

Well, so Erica, you've known me for a long time, you know that I'm pretty cautious, cost conscious? How much do coaches cost?

Erica D'Eramo 15:45

Another great question. It really can kind of span a very broad spectrum. So in corporate engagements, and with executive coaches, you know, like the CEOs of some of the, you know, Fortune 10 companies have coaches. And the sky is going to be the limit for what those engagements cost. But that's really representative of the value they're bringing, both to the leader and to the organization. If you're on a very tight budget, coaching is not inaccessible, we would not, especially for Two Piers, that's one of our, that's one of kind of our guiding principles is that we want these resources to be accessible. So there are plenty of coaches out there that are pursuing their certification, they are very skilled coaches, they've gone through all the curriculum, all the mentor coaching, the practice, etc. And they need to accumulate some coaching hours to pursue their various levels of certification. So sometimes people will offer significantly reduced rates, and you're still getting great coaching. And sometimes they'll offer pro bono rates as well, or like a barter for for coaching. Generally, for an engagement, I would say, if it's spanning a few months, it can be anywhere from several $100 to several $1,000 for an individual client. And it really just depends on what the niche is, and, and kind of how much experience that coach has.

Alisa Tijerina 17:21

Okay, so just thinking about my coaching experience, I, I had I enjoyed talking to the person, I felt like we got along, but how do you know if that coach is right for you?

Erica D'Eramo 17:36

Yeah. There are a lot of kind of elements that you should be checking, when you first talk to a potential coach. A lot of coaches will offer sort of a free consultation just to see, is this a good match. And coaches have very different styles. And, you know, when you listen to different coaching sessions, as part of the training, sometimes you think like, Whoa, that's, that's quite abrasive, but it maybe works really well for that client, and they like it. And in other cases, it's, you think, oh, that's really just so gentle and kind of passive. And but again, if that works for the client, that's great. So it's really wonderful that there's so many different styles out there. What I would say, though, is don't take it for granted that if you find an experienced coach who's really well regarded that their style will be the right one for you. And if their style's not the right one for you, that's okay, too. So I'd say you know, meet with them, see what their style is, you can ask them, what's your style of coaching? And how do you hold people accountable? And if they're quite firm, and that's not what you want, then, you know, maybe tell them that that's not your style. And with your previous experiences of just having nice conversations, that tells me that, you know, you potentially weren't doing check ins to assess how you were progressing against the goals. So a lot of coaching involves, you know, how are we doing against our goals? Do we need to reevaluate? Are these goals still the right goals? Is this working for you? So, yeah, that's an important element.

Alisa Tijerina 19:06

So why did you pursue coaching?

Erica D'Eramo 19:09

Yeah, I pursued coaching because I really wanted to help people. And through the first few years of Two Piers, I offered coaching and I would have engagements with clients that I would, you know, provide them support, they would have issues that they were facing, and they would ask me for advice. And I thought that that was coaching. And I wanted to become better at that. So I pursued my certification through Coach Rice through Rice University. And what I discovered through that program was that what I was doing was probably more like mentoring and consulting, and not really the client driven coaching that can be so transformative. So we were certainly fixing problems and we were certainly and kind of addressing them and finding solutions. But it wasn't the type of coaching that we learn through through certification. And now that I've done that, and learned what coaching is and how transformative it can be, and been in the client seat so much through that process, I'm just even more committed to the practice of coaching. I'm such a believer in it. And I think I can really help people to enact the change that they're trying to enact through coaching.

Alisa Tijerina 20:31

Wow, Erica, this has been really helpful. Thank you for sharing and answering all my questions. I really appreciate it.

Erica D'Eramo 20:37

Yeah, these are great questions. I mean, you have these questions, and other people have these questions. And I certainly get asked a lot like, so what what exactly is coaching? And what type of coach are you, and fundamentally, like coaching, like we said, it's partnering with a client to achieve their goals. And the coach I am is the is, you know, the coach that my client needs in the moment. And, you know, the types of people who could benefit from coaching are pretty much everyone. So if you're looking for a coach, I recommend reaching out to us, Two Piers. And if we're not the right people for you, we can certainly try to hook you up with other really talented coaches. And the ICF website. So that's a great resource to find certified coaches and learn a bit more about their style and what their specialties are. So it's a great resource. Yeah. So thanks for joining us today Alisa and asking me all these great questions.

Alisa Tijerina 21:33

Thank you for having me.

Erica D'Eramo 21:34

And for anyone listening that wants to know more about Two Piers Consulting, we have plenty of information on our website at twopiersconsulting.com. And you can find us on the social media platforms at Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And if you're enjoying the podcast and finding value in it, then please give us a rating and give us a review and we'll talk to you next time.