The Stress Effect

Since 1992, April has been recognized as Stress Awareness Month. Chronic stress has been shown to negatively impact health in a multitude of ways, and enduring high levels of stress can decrease performance at both an individual and organizational level. Research also indicates that stress can impact historically marginalized communities in more extreme ways. In this podcast episode, we explore ways to recognize and address stress in both yourself and your team, and the importance of understanding how it manifests uniquely for each of us.

Transcript below:

Erica D'Eramo 0:07

Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers Podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. Today we'll be discussing stress. So we'll explore stress from a personal and physiological standpoint, but also from an organizational standpoint. We'll discuss ways to recognize stress and ways to address it both for yourself and for your team. Thanks for joining us for this next episode of Season 3 of the Two Piers podcast.

For the past 30 years, April has been recognized as Stress Awareness Month. It's a time in which we can raise awareness about the health impacts of stress, and how it affects both ourselves and those around us. So I wanted to start this podcast out with a personal anecdote back from 2016. So at that time, I had just wrapped up a really high stress, high stakes job working offshore, rotating internationally kind of working on a boat. And I just started a sabbatical, I had just started this company Two Piers, I'd also just gotten married, we just had like a little ceremony with friends and family up in Massachusetts kind of signed the paperwork out in a park with a town clerk, you know, nothing exorbitant. But I was also combining households at the time, now that I wasn't working offshore, we decided to renovate my house while we lived in my partner's house. I also decided to apply for some grad schools to start my MBA and explore grad school programs. Meanwhile, I was in parallel organizing the big wedding celebration that we would be holding in Houston, where, you know, our friends would travel from around the country, and it would kind of be the big party. So, I was doing all this while self managing ADHD and thinking to myself, like, oh, this is the low stress part of my life. This is the part where I've left the high stress work environment behind and now I can just focus on some personal things for a little bit. Then, all of a sudden, I started seeing these symptoms of what looked like an allergic reaction, almost like I'd eaten something that I was allergic to. And we could not figure out the source. I talked to doctors, and we tried eliminating pretty much everything from my diet. They put me on some oral steroids, and yet I was still seeing these like big red blotches that would just come out of nowhere and it persisted. I tried antihistamines, I tried Benadryl, which is an antihistamine, but you know, these all have side effects. So the steroids can make you like a little edgy or cranky, they can cause like increased appetite, decreased metabolism, the Benadryl makes you sleepy and groggy. Just a whole cocktail of things that someone who is about to have to get in a little white dress does not, does not want to deal with. And I just felt increasingly helpless and frustrated. And then we like had no answers. So it just happened to be that in those days leading up to the wedding, I offhandedly mentioned to my OBGYN during my annual appointment that I was having these like, allergy symptoms, and we couldn't figure out what it was. I'd like gone to hypoallergenic everything. And I was essentially eating just like bowls of rice at that point. She laughed and was like, "Well, it's the stress silly." And I thought like, I'm not stressed.

There's no stress, like, what I'm not even like doing anything I'm, I'm, I'm not working offshore anymore. So this is like the low stress period. And she kind of like rattled off all the things that I was doing, these major life changes that I was tackling all at once. And I realized, like, oh, right, I am stressed. It's just a different type of stress. I was so just caught up in the sheer number of things I had to get done and just entirely focused on powering through that I really hadn't even considered the magnitude of what I was trying to accomplish. And it just didn't fit in my paradigm either of what I thought stress looked like. So instead of being in an environment where people could die if I made a mistake, or we were always on edge, and the hours were really long, and there were sleep deprivation, it was a different type of stress, but stress that I had gotten used to, in a way. And now I told myself, you know, I'm just like, I'm arranging Airbnb reservations for family members, and travel plans and catering reservations and this is easier stuff. But it wasn't, it wasn't easier stuff, there were lots of interpersonal interactions going on, there was a lot to juggle, there were a lot of disparate work streams happening with pretty high stakes. So, yeah, I finally realized what the source of this reaction was, and it was my own body kind of saying, like, timeout, stop, that's enough, you're not going to acknowledge the stress unless we do something that's unavoidably recognizable here, was like putting up a warning flare to say, like, cut it out, this isn't sustainable. And it did right before the big wedding event in an unavoidable way. So, it was clear, once it was clear what the source of the stress was, or what the source of the this reaction was, I was able to take measures to kind of intervene, and I was able to sort of delegate a lot of stuff and let go of some of the perfectionism around it, and just sit my butt down and do some meditation, which really, really helped. And so in those photos from that day, I managed to get into that little cream colored Diane Von Furstenberg dress after all, and there's no big red blotches in any other photos. But, I still look back on that and think, how unaware I was of my own stress levels, and whenever I start to feel stress kind of reaching those unsustainable levels in my life, I remember like there's a potential allergic reaction around the corner that might kick in, that I'll then have to deal with in parallel, when my body just says, nope.

So what's the point of this story? What's the learning that I want our listeners to take away? Well, there are a couple, one big piece of it is the connection between mind and body, they are in fact, one in the same. So our brain's primary function is actually to maintain what's called allostasis. And you might not have heard that word before. So that's the process in which a state of internal physiological equilibrium is maintained by an organism in response to actual or perceived environmental and psychological stressors. So Lisa Feldman Barrett explains this in actually both of her books that I've read, she might have more than two books, but the two that I've read are, How Emotions Are Made, which goes very much in depth around how our brains function and the connection between emotions and physiology. And then her other book, Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain, which is a very engaging and easily approachable book, so I highly recommend it. So she explains that the brain's primary function is not actually thinking, even though that's what we normally think of when we think of the brain. The brain's primary function is to keep you alive. So all of the signals that are transmitted, all of the chemicals that are released, the physiological changes that we then interpret as emotions, for example, my stomach feels queasy, and my blood pressure has gone up and I'm starting to sweat, therefore, this is stress. Those are the result of our brain trying to predict and prepare for whatever will keep us alive. And it does so by budgeting and then deploying the resources that we have. So the energy that we have from eating food, or the water that we have available, the hormones that we have available, but sometimes the perceived threats that we're physically prepared to tackle in that state of elevated stress, that like acute stress, are not the actual deadly threats that we think they are.

Instead, we end up with this chronic enduring stress, which ironically, does not help keep us alive. In fact, it shortens our lifespans. So stress is tied to myriad health conditions that can negatively impact not just our quality of life, but also the length of our life. So in that episode from 2016 that I just discussed, I had a case of acute stress that was layered on top of chronic stress and that manifested into a visible physical reaction. However much of the impact to our bodies and health are just not so easily recognized. But that doesn't mean they're not occurring and enduring. So according to the APA or the American Psychological Association, chronic stress can affect both our physical and psychological well being by causing a variety of problems including anxiety, insomnia, muscle pain, high blood pressure, and a weakened immune system, which you know, during a pandemic is certainly not what we want. So chronic stress, we know is tied to heart disease and even those that do not have heart disease can suffer a heart attack due to an acute bout of stress. So as we approached April this year, and I was thinking about all these amplifying stressors that play layering on top of each other, the incredible amount of stress that most people are managing just day to day already, plus we had a war kicking off in Europe, we had these terrible stories of pain and destruction and talk of nuclear war at play, COVID cases going up and down, surging, but certainly regulations are changing with mass mandates, and people are returning to the office and managing that in a new world of hybrid work or fully returned to work. And oh, April is tax season. So you know, that annual low stress time for everyone where they're getting all their stuff done. And you know, maybe you got your taxes done in January, but I don't know how many people were battling up to the last minute to get taxes done in April. So I'm sure it's just a coincidence that April was chosen as stress Awareness Month, but I certainly saw lots of seasonal stress. And the days are getting longer, which everyone tends to think of as a good thing. And I do think it's a good thing, I think seasonal affective disorder tends to hit people in the winter, when the days are short, we have a lack of sunlight, a lack of vitamin D. But as those days get longer, and our energy increases, sometimes that can lead to higher stress, it can actually lead to increased irritability for some folks and longer days and less sleep. So that light change in the positive direction, we should also be keeping an eye on.

So what can we do? I think we certainly can't change individually, we can't change outcomes of international diplomacy or stop a global pandemic. But one of the most important things we can do is to recognize the stress itself. So that was the other key element from my story from 2016 was this ability to recognize our own kind of tells or identify our own signals from ourselves or our bodies that we are under huge amounts of stress. So we all have different ways that stress will manifest and it could be behavior like biting your nails, or eating sugary foods, or it could be exhibited through poor sleep. Maybe when you're experiencing high stress, you end up doom scrolling on social media for extended periods of time.

So we can learn a lot about our current state by just stopping to take a quick inventory of our behaviors of our rhythms and the sensations and experiences that we're having within our bodies. That's something that we call interoception. So a key to this activity of like taking that inventory is at least, to the best of your ability, trying to leave behind the stories about how stressed you should be right now. So just like in my story, where I felt like, I should not be stressed right now, because I'm not doing the normal things that I would think would stress me out. These are fun things to be doing. You know, picking out tile for the kitchen renovation should be a fun activity. I had my own biases and stories around what stress should look like and that got in the way of me being able to recognize what was happening with myself. Even more recently, a few weeks ago, I realized that I was crying intermittently from things that normally wouldn't cause such a reaction. And that's pretty unusual for me. And then it dawned on me that I was managing a massive amount of stress, coming up on the end of one cue, lots of due dates and deadlines and a lot of different responsibilities in different parts of my life that we're all just kind of landing at the same time. In a moment, I remember thinking, but I don't have anything to be stressed about. And just saying the words out loud, like, I think I've reached my full capacity and I'm approaching burnout was hugely impactful for me.

So being able to stop taking inventory, and just recognize what is versus what should be, can be really helpful in at least understanding where we're at on that scale of stress. And when we've moved from sort of peak operating for intermittent stress into the enduring chronic stress that is now reducing our quality of life and reducing our quality of work and having negative impacts. So while you know coming to that realization is not a cure in and of itself, it is the key to be able to make a change. So that's the key empowering information to be able to then make changes in your life and not just continue with the status quo. So you can start to monitor for when those sorts of, I'll call it a tell, those tells arise, even just when your pace quickens or you can feel your blood pressure increase, and I mentioned interoception. So that's when we are aware of the feelings within our body, and a lot of times yoga practitioners will discuss interoception, but it's being able to understand the small changes in your own physiology that normally you're not even thinking about. Once you can pick up on that, then you can make those adjustments and adjustments can take a wide range of forms. So it might be physical, you might notice that you're feeling elevated stress and you wanna go get some fresh air or go take a walk, maybe play fetch with your puppy, that's a great stress reliever. Or you know, play with your cat. Pets are huge stress relievers, when they're not stressed inducers at three o'clock in the morning. But you can also make environmental changes. So you can increase how much full spectrum light that you have in your workspace, you can put your noise cancelling headphones in and add some uplifting music, if you work better with music. Music and rhythm can be huge stress reducers. Maybe dancing is the way that you can reduce stress. It can also be psychological, we can reframe our situations and maybe understand the true likelihood of negative outcomes. So that threat that we're perceiving that's causing that fight or flight mechanism to kick in, what's the real likelihood that something bad will happen? And what does that really look like? That can take some of the weight out of it. Or perhaps, we stopped trying to control an outcome that isn't ours to control so that you know, there's mechanisms in the reframing that we can use. That's something that we do a lot in coaching is we can reframe things and understand what the true root source of the stressor is, and then how we want to understand it going forward.

But we can also make some big changes. If chronic stress is something that has been a battle for months or years, then it could be that you can say no to big projects, you know, no new projects, I'm already at capacity or no to people. And surrounding yourself with people who understand that and are okay with that can really improve our quality of life. And sometimes it's at a point where we understand that it's time to leave a job or a relationship that's no longer serving us and is the source of our chronic stress. And I recognize that's not always possible. That requires resources, privilege, etc. But a first step is even recognizing where the source of our chronic stress is coming from and what the impact is to our longer term lifespan and quality of life. So another thing to keep in mind, as we look at how we react and respond to stress is that our stress patterns can really be shaped by our past experiences, especially when those include trauma. So in their book What Happened to You?, Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey, do a great job of exploring stress patterns and stress response. I listened to that book on Audible and I thought it was wonderful to hear the discussion back and forth. They provide a PDF that has diagrams to walk through it, but I also think the paperback could be another great resource. So they discussed how individuals who have experienced unpredictable, extreme and or prolonged stress, particularly in their developmental years, may also experience sensitized stress responses. So that means that they're fight, flight or freeze reaction is just triggered more quickly. So if we think of like a curve, it looks more like a logarithmic curve that rises fast and then plateaus versus a linear curve, that's like a straight line in a upward direction. So this type of response, one point was the body's way of keeping that individual safe in the face of unpredictable danger. But it's not so easily turned off when it starts kicking in prematurely or causes a stress response that's no longer appropriate or helpful for us. So we see similar impacts with PTSD. And Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, actually explores this extensively in his book, The Body Keeps the Score. And I mentioned this because it can be really helpful to work with a trained certified therapist to address any past trauma that is negatively impacting how we experience and process stress in our day to day lives. That's not for everybody, not everyone is experiencing those sensitized stress responses due to trauma. But if you are, then definitely there is work to be done that a therapist can help with.

So we've talked about this from a personal perspective, but how about from an organizational perspective. Staying tuned into the stress levels of your team and your employees is critical, but we have to remember that each of us will exhibit and manage stress in our own unique way. So, if you as a team manager are an extrovert, and you think that the way for the group to blow off steam after a big deliverable is to have an off site or like a Zoom happy hour, you'll just need to be mindful that any introverts on your team are probably under increased stress due to that activity, and it's adding about a massive stressor instead of alleviating stress. Similarly, for the extroverts on the team, if they've been working from home extensively for enduring periods of time, that could be leading to feelings of isolation, and thus increased stress. So many times the narratives and myths we have around the value of the grind or toughing it out or putting in the elbow grease, they can actually do a disservice to us in recognizing and addressing stress. And yet, we know that chronic stress levels lead to decreased productivity, difficulty concentrating, increased interpersonal conflict and tension. And then, oversights and mistakes. So while we might mythologize and kind of hold up the grind and putting in the long hours as being somehow like, emblematic of a good worker, it can cloud our vision with recognizing stress and performance on the team. So allowing the stress to then continue to the point of burnout just results in more like days away from work cases, more medical leave higher turnover. And none of that is good for the bottom line. None of that is good for team cohesiveness or for furthering the mission of your organization.

And we also know that members of marginalized and underrepresented groups may not just experience additional higher levels of chronic and acute stress, but they also might have less leeway in addressing that stress in the workplace or showing vulnerability because they're facing biases and stereotypes that will limit the ways in which they feel they can talk about that stress or voice those concerns or be vulnerable. So getting to know each member of your team as an individual and establishing psychological safety and understanding how they cope with and manage stress are all critical leadership skills and frankly responsibilities of any leader. That doesn't mean that we need to entirely change the way the team works for each and every individual but, being able to treat everyone in the way that they will operate best will inherently be better for the team.

So if you are looking for support in dealing with a stressful work environment, or if you want to learn more about establishing healthy work practices in your team, you can get in touch with us at twopiersconsulting.com and you can schedule a free consultation and we'll talk about how we can help you. Our coaches and consultants are here to help you on an individual level and on an organizational level to help you thrive. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Two Piers Podcast.

Stress In Times of Confinement

Photo courtesy of Unsplash.

This week, we invite our first guest to join us in discussing stress in times of confinement. Alisa Tijerina helps us explore experiences and observations related to recognizing and managing stress when we can't leave the house, (or our workplace). 

We’ve included a transcript of our conversation below:

Erica: Hello and welcome to the Two Piers Podcast, Season One, Episode Five. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo, and today we will be talking about stress. We also have our first guest today, which, with social distancing, has been a technological challenge, but we're making it work. So, joining us is Alisa Tijerina. Welcome, Alisa!

Alisa: Hi, Erica. Thank you. Happy to be here.

Erica: So, Alisa has some experience with stress, and particularly stress in the, uh, in a confined environment. So, yeah, Alisa, do you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself?

Alisa: Um, yeah. So, I have worked in oil and gas for multiple years now too many to even count. Um, and I've lived all over the world and have worked in confined spaces. I've worked on an offshore, oil rig, and I've worked in the middle of the desert. I've worked in the Arctic. So, lots of confined spaces, high hazard industry, and, of course, lots of stress.

Erica: Yes. So great opportunity to contribute to contribute to this podcast. So April is stress Awareness Month and we thought it would be appropriate to discuss stress in the context of confinement as much of the world right now is still under a stay at home order and will likely be for some time in the future. So, in this podcast, today will be sharing our experiences between Alisa and myself and what has worked for us, and what has worked for some other folks as well so that you can potentially find some gems that you can utilize.

Alisa: And of course, we will share the things that have failed for us as well because there's been a lot of that.

Erica: Yes - "what does not work." But a caveat here: so, we are not psychologists, and we can only share our lived experiences, and some other resource is that we found that will hopefully be of use to you. So, what is stress? And is it bad? Kind of, this is, this is a fundamental question. So, Medline is a site hosted by the National Institute of Health, and it's, it's really helpful. It provides a definition for us of stress. So, stress, as defined by them, is a feeling of emotional or physical tension. It can come from any event or thought that makes you feel frustrated, angry or nervous. Stress is your body's reaction to a challenge or demand. In short bursts, stress can be positive, such as when it helps you avoid danger or meet a deadline. But when stress lasts for a long time, it may cause harm to your health. So, Alisa, how do you feel about that definition?

Alisa: Makes sense! Yeah, totally makes sense. I, uh, I like the positive stress. I like the adrenaline of the short burst. And I do definitely think that it makes me, um, perform better, under stress, but as long as it's in the short burst time frame. No, I really do - I thrive on that. I mean, that's like the, that's the adrenaline rush. That's the, "I've got a deadline. We're gonna you know, we're gonna stay up. We're gonna do this! We're gonna finish it. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna rock it." You know that. That's -that is, um you know, it's an upper. I feel like I perform well under those conditions.

Erica: Yea, I mean, that's how, like, that's how amusement parks and carnivals make their money, right? Because I know that at a certain point, humans do like that kind of, um, short burst of adrenaline, which is stress.

Alisa: Absolutely. But the thing about amusement parks is that, you know, that ride's gonna end, right? So, you're not gonna be... I think I would be... I would have chronic stress if I knew I was going on a roller coaster for 10 years or whatever it was that would be horrible. But for that two minutes, "Great! I'm on it. Yes - let me right again."

Erica: And, of course, there's an element to that of control, and it's our choice, and our agency hasn't been taken away,

Alisa: ...and we're confident that it will end, and we will be back, yeah, back on our feet and able to eat a funnel cake.

Erica: Yeah, but today we'll be primarily talking about chronic stress, right? Chronic stress is the opposite of that. So that's the one where we do not have an end date to it. It's not associated with a specific event. It doesn't, like, peak and then pass. Chronic stress is just sort of that noise that exists in the background. And we know that chronic stress has all sorts of implications to it. And those can be physical. They can be health related. It could be high blood pressure, heart disease. There's all sorts of health related issues connected to chronic stress, but it can also be relational. It can take a toll on our relationships. It can take a toll on our performance, our careers, etcetera... Do you have any examples of how chronic stress...

Alisa: ...has affected me? Yeah. Um, well, I would say that it took me a while to even recognize chronic stress because I thought that was just my normal. I thought, you know, I'm gonna in this intense job. I am in a job where I'm accountable for people's lives. Um, I'm the one who has to be strong for everybody. It's just it's a high stress job. Or, you know, you know, I had those experiences, and I just, I just thought that that was my normal. I didn't actually associate it with stress. I associate it with, "I have a high level of stress tolerance because I'm in a demanding job." Um, and I'm in a... and I'm essentially in a box in the ocean having to manage this demanding job. Um, so that's, you know, that confinement on top of a demanding job, you know, is it - you know, it's just, it's additive, so it's even an additional stress. It took me a while to realize that even that, that normal of a demanding job, that kind of, you know, my normal day of a demanding job was still causing stress, you know, on me. And that was the chronic stress. And when I thought I was fine; I was actually experiencing a lot of stress.

Erica: Yeah, like very high levels. Yeah. So, I want to explore a few things there. First of all, um, this idea that we - we're almost like frogs in boiling water sometimes, right? We don't - we don't even recognize the amount of stress that we're under until either it's alleviated, perhaps, and we realize, like, "Whoa, I just let this way off my shoulders." Or... until, unfortunately, something happens, so, you know, we have, like, a heart attack, or we, um we snap at somebody that we love or we make some sort of mistake or oversight that, that costs us in some way or hurt somebody else. So, what were some of the ways that you found to recognize when you were under this level of stress that had sort of become normalized to you?

Alisa: Hmmm. Good question. The analogy you used with the frog in the boiling water? I think that just hits the nail on the head. Right? So, if you think about just kind of going back to that analogy putting the frog directly in boiling water, that's the acute stress, putting it in the cold water and then boiling it. That's the chronic stress. I mean, that's a that is, seriously, a perfect analogy.

Erica: So how are some ways that you identify when you are feeling or when you're experiencing chronic stress? Because if, if you're anything like me, it takes something to, like, put the light bulb on that, "Oh. Oh no. I am stressed! And I've probably been operating under, like, a huge amount of stress for a while now."

Alisa: Absolutely. So, I...

Erica: Is it, like, physical? Is it relational? Is an emotional? What is it for you?

Alisa: So, there's... Yeah. So, all three. Yes, yes, yes. Um, but first of all, I would say that it took me years to figure this out, and it was not all of a sudden that I was like, "Oh, this is how I feel." And, "Oh, I'm stressed." No, no, no. I mean, we're talking like 15... like not not even like, one year, two years... I mean, 15 years

Erica: In your career, as an adult...

Alisa: In my career as an adult to figure this out. Um, which I mean, I consider myself pretty smart and 15 years to learn something...

Erica: Yeah, and accomplished

Alisa: 15 years to learn something? Oh, my God. Like that's a long time. Um, personally, I get - I hold stress in my stomach, and I've known that since I was a kid. Um, you know, anxiety and stress. I feel it in my stomach. I end up, um, you know, having a stomachache, or I feel like after the bathroom, but I don't really. You know that, that that kind of physical reaction, I definitely have. I do find my heart beats faster. Um, I get colder. You know those are kind of easy physical tell tales. Um, emotional: I find that if I have chronic stress, things that normally wouldn't bother me are bothering me. I find that I'll snap at my mom at something that she's, you know, done my entire life. But, you know, today it's bothering me and that that's a bit of a trigger.

Erica: Yeah, those all make sense. I think for me, I tend to tense my shoulders up and so I'll get like an aching pain in my left shoulder, and that's an indicator to me that I'm chronically stressed. Or like tension headaches are another one, um, and my blood pressure goes up when I normally have very low blood pressure. But when I am under stress, that's definitely a quick, easy measure for me to tell that something is wrong. And I agree completely - I think, like, the other week we had so many different things that were going on and really some, some tragedy that I hadn't probably dealt with enough. And so, something tiny, like a LinkedIn post that was a misattribution of, you know, somebody's like poetry just kind of put me into a meltdown, and I thought, "Oh, this is a... This is a gift. This is an indicator that I am clearly stressed right now because something this small doesn't really matter in the grand scheme."

Alisa: That's really, um, interesting that you say that because that, that really... If you tie into what's going on in the world right now with Corona virus, um, and people working from home and you know, people getting sick and, um, confinement. All of that, uh, is an added stressor.

Erica: Yeah. So, in the time of Corona virus, I think where we are all dealing with various levels of anxiety, various levels of grief, even those of us who haven't lost a loved one, um, we're grieving, you know, maybe the loss of a job? Grieving the loss of opportunity or a future that we had pictured for ourselves that now doesn't look like that will happen. Um, or the loss of, you know just are normal. Normal is kind of gone for a little bit. We'll have a new normal, but we're just not there yet. So, there's some grief involved in that. And in a context like this, where all of those stressors are piling up on each other, it just feels a bit like a... like a boiler room. You know, it feels a bit like under pressure, because there's no relief path.

Alisa: It's that frog in the in the pot of boiling water. 

Erica: Yeah, so you know, there are different... I'm sure there's different ways that each of us respond to chronic stress and building that awareness is probably different for each person. Right? It sounds different between you and I what are indicators are for that. And, um, I think you've done quite a bit of yoga, right? Have you found that that's... has that been kind of a tool for you at all?

Alisa: Yoga has been good because it has helped me listen to my body.

Erica: Yeah, that makes sense.

Alisa: Like you were saying about your shoulders tensing... 

Erica: Yeah...  

Alisa: You know they're constantly telling you in yoga, you know, "relax your shoulders, relax your shoulders." 

Erica: "Are you clenching your jaw?" And you're like, "Oh, wow..."

Alisa: Yeah, I am.

Erica: "I am clenching my jaw! Thank you." Yeah, you don't even realize it.  For me, I had a similar experience with meditation. So, working offshore, it was meditation that gave me that brief kind of interlude where I could put the weight down. And then I realized how heavy the weight was when I went to go pick it back up again, which is, um, very helpful for understanding just how, uh, just how maxed out you are, I think.

Alisa: I've always struggled with mental meditation. Um, I keep trying, and over the last time, this last month with the Covid 19, I have. I've downloaded Headspace, and I've been doing that daily. Um, but I'm not anywhere as near where, you know, where you are, but yoga definitely makes a difference for me.

Erica: Do you find that that has given you any tools, that you apply?

Alisa: Absolutely. So, yoga has allowed me to, um, well, first of all, let me tell you my experience with yoga. I didn't like it. At all. When I first started it, you know, probably 20 years ago, more than that, because I felt like it wasn't a workout - it was just stretching. Um, and then I would have to...

Erica: People would tell me it's boring, and I think...  

Alisa: Yeah, I would have to, I would have to do my stretching, my yoga, and then I would still have to go run or, you know, exercise or go lift weights or something. So, I never really thought it was a workout. Um, but over the years, I ended up rupturing and disc in my back playing tennis and did a lot of yoga for the recovery. And when I started doing that, I realized how beneficial it was for me, and then I was, was addicted to it after that, I do, um I mean, I don't do a whole lot of it now, but I'm pretty regular. Um, but I found that by doing yoga, it allows you, you know you learn how to listen to your body. You learn how to listen to, or figure out what hurts, how you're feeling. There's a lot of, um, you know, you're focusing on just that hour, that, “Now.”  

Erica: Being present.  

Alisa: Being present, putting all those other worries, all those other things that are going on in your life. You're, you know, dedicating that yoga practice too, uh, to you and to, you know, just, you know, your body. So, um, I have gotten a lot out of it.

Erica: Yeah, I think for me it's been beneficial on the mat, and I really benefit from that awareness off the mat that you start to think like, "Oh, I'm clenching my jaw." "Oh, I'm tensing my shoulders." Those little indicators that I might otherwise not be observant of or not even noticed because they're just part of my normal day to day. And for me meditation was a big part of that. Just having that 20 minutes to take the weight off my shoulders and put it down for a little bit. It then made me aware of how much I was carrying in the first place. Um, and then you can adjust, right? And during times like this, where we're all, we are all stressed to some extent or another, we can sort of dial back our expectations on performance a little bit. Maybe you are not gonna perform at 100%. Or we can expect to know to puts mitigations in place because we know that we'll snap it or mom or cry it that commercial or whatever it is that are, you know, however, it is that we express our stress.  

Erica: So, we've talked a little bit about recognizing stress and how to understand when it is that we're stressed, because I don't think we can take that for granted. And I think that's one of the most important parts. But then there's also an element of how do we deal with chronic stress when we're in it? How do we mitigate it? So, what are your thoughts on that?

Alisa: So, my thoughts on how to deal with it... Um I mean, I've learned a lot of things. I've tried a lot of things over the years. I think one of the first things that's important is really to understand why you're feeling it and what kind of, what the actual root cause of that is. You know, why, you know, Are you feeling stressed or are you feeling anxious or are you feeling the way you're feeling because of, you know, because of Covid, because you're worried about your family because you're worried about your neighbors because there's something going on at your work? Um, what is it

Erica: …Or you don't have work?

Alisa: Maybe you don't have work?

Erica: Maybe you've been laid off.

Alisa: You know that there's all these stressors out in the world and I think understanding what that, what the root cause of that stressor is, is actually the first thing that you should do, because if you can name it, then you can, you can try to mitigate it?  

Erica: Yeah, or even just address it and acknowledge it. I think that there's... there is some freedom in recognizing those things that we cannot mitigate right? That whole question of, once we know what the issue is stressing us out, is there something that we can do about it? If so, do it. And if not, if there's nothing you can do about it, then you can put that to the side for a period of time and, and observe. But understanding that there's nothing that you could do about it is kind of freeing in a way, sometimes,

Alisa: Yeah. I think that approaching the stress logically is really important. Because when we're stressed, your initial reaction is not, you're not necessarily thinking logically. Your emotions, you're feeling, you're feeling emotional, you're thinking, you could be thinking with your emotions. So, if you can approach it and try to, write it down, figure out what kind of what it is. You know, am I... I'm stressed because I've, um because I've lost my job. Um, and then you think, "Do I have an emergency fund?" "Do I have this or how can I? You know, how can I feed my family?" And if you can figure out ways to address those, uh, those things, then it, it helps you, um, at least you know you're addressing the thing that's you know, concerning, concerning you.  

Erica: Yeah, there's been a lot published recently from kind of astronauts giving their thoughts on living with stress in isolation. And one of the things that Chris Hatfield recommends is, or one of the analogies he makes with being in space, and the current COVID crisis is that there's this, like, big, unspoken danger out there that's not clearly defined. It's just this kind of big, amorphous, frightening thing. Um, and so, you know, operating a rocket ship is like that. There's just this, there's always a constant elevated level of danger, and it's sort of nameless and quiet. And he compares that to Corona virus. And, to think, Corona virus, it's really, like, the current situations are hitting at every level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? That that philosophy, that there are fundamental needs such as, you know our physical needs that need to be met and our psychological needs that need to be met and really every one of those right now, with Corona virus is, sort of, under threat. Physical needs, physical health. Um, our financial security our, just never mind psychological security. So, um

Alisa: So yeah, I think it's important to, you know, you said this big amorphous, frightening thing. Ah, so if you can name that identify, identifying it versus "Oh, my God, there's this big, amorphous, frightening thing" 

Erica: In the closet.  

Alisa: Yeah, if you could actually break that down even if you can't solve it or even if you can't mitigate it, you at least know what it is.

Erica: You can put a name to the boogeyman.

Alisa: You can put a name to the, exactly. You put a name to the boogeyman.

Erica: Yeah.

Alisa: And I think once you do that. And I think at least for me, that's always, that's been a good first step. Ah, and then the second step is trying to, um almost take your mind off of it, right? So you, you know, have a routine. You, uh, figure out what your, you know, maybe you want to eat healthy or you want to exercise or you need, um you know, you set up something where you can speak to your friends and to your family on a regular basis, you know, understanding what those things are out there that, um, you know, you personally need, like, like the hierarchy of needs, right? So what, what are certain things that I, that I need that'll make me feel better. Like when I worked offshore, I was offshore for, um, multiple weeks at a time. When I first started, it was, I had all these ambitious goals which were, "I'm gonna exercise every day. I'm gonna eat healthy. I'm not gonna go to... not gonna eat any doughnuts. I'm gonna work, you know? I'm gonna work. I gonna get all my work done, you know..."

Erica: You're going to write a book.

Alisa: “Inbox zero! I'm gonna, you know, all of these things." And those are my goals. And, you know, 1st, 1st trip out there fail, fail, fail, fail. Right? And that was a bit of a, bit of a downer. And then I realized that, you know, that was a bit of a ridiculous goal to have, you know, because the reality is "Do I need to do that?" No.

Erica: Also, you're not oper... Even if you could do that all at 100% there's no way to operate 100%

Alisa: All the time

Erica: Under that, under that kind of circumstance, where...

Alisa: But I think, so, that's... that's interesting that you say that because we say that that's 100%. But what you, when you, when I think about 100% like, it's not... This isn't a sprint. This is a marathon, right? So, you're having to... I can definitely do a sprint at 100% energy exertion for a short burst. That's my acute stressor. You know that's coming in. I'm gonna do an all-nighter. I'm gonna get this presentation out, or I'm gonna, you know, fix, you know, whatever it is. But the, the enduring kind of chronic stress, you can't. You can't live that same way. And right now, the entire world is under additional chronic stress with what's going on. So how do you, you know, how do you deal with that? Yeah, So I think having that routine of "I'm gonna eat good every day, not eat any chocolate, not eat any doughnuts, exercise every day, speak to... finish all my work, inbox zero." That was lofty. Ah, and what I ended up doing was realizing that my routine needed to have, um needed to have days where I, you know, worked hard. But I also had rest days, you know, I wasn't... I didn't ever aim to work out every day. I'd work out two days and then be off one day and then work out two days and be off one day and work out doesn't necessarily mean two hours in a gym. It meant right. I'm gonna get X amount of steps, and that's it. Um, and then there's certain days that I said, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be watching TV. I'm gonna watch TV. I'm gonna watch trash reality TV just to let my mind not, you know, worry about all the things that are going on.  

Erica: I think that that kind of structure is really important because so many of us feel guilty or feel like we're just distracting ourselves with that relaxation period. So if you find cooking to be relaxing or if you find playing a video game to be relaxing or just surfing the Internet to be whatever it is that you find relaxing, that needs to be reinvigorating you during these times, like those, those activities are valuable. And if you cannot do that without guilt, because you think like "Oh, I should be doing something else right now, I should be writing this opus," you know, we're in... we're being quarantined. So therefore, I have to, you know, create all these whatever Pinterest projects. And they have to be perfect. And my kids have to be perfectly educated and all these goals and you don't block in any real rejuvenating time, then when you do get those little breaks, sometimes it's not actually rejuvenating. You end up feeling guilty like you should be doing something else. So, I think structure is great and that structure needs to build in the downtime as well.

Alisa: I think that you made a good point about the rejuvenating activities. Right, so there's times that I would find where I would just spend an hour on Facebook or I would spend an hour on Instagram, and that was a time draw. But it wasn't rejuvenating for me, and I had to... it took me a little while to realize what are my rejuvenating activities? And those are the ones that I should actually invest, invest in

Erica: and see it as an investment. And, yeah, it's not a waste. It is. It's actually an investment that pays returns

Alisa: that's going to allow me to perform better on those.  

Erica: Yeah, on the other activities.  

Alisa: Yeah, but I did have to limit, like, the things that I just felt were, you know, were wasteful cause I get, I mean even now, like I could spend three hours just flipping through random things on Facebook or on the Internet.  

Erica: And do you feel better afterwards?

Alisa: No, I don't.

Erica: If you did, then that's fine. No shame on flipping through Facebook.  

Alisa: Exactly.  

Erica: Great.

Alisa: Yeah, if you did, it's fine. But that's the, that's a bit about understanding yourself, understanding how you feel. You need to know what caused, like, so this is gonna be totally nerdy, and I will share this to you. Ah, and to the, uh, web listeners. Um, one of the things that I find relaxing is I can mess with Excel if I'm messing with, like an Excel spreadsheet.  

Erica: Yes, you are an engineer.

Alisa: I know. I know, right? If I'm messing with an Excel spreadsheet, I do find that, like, oddly relaxing. That's really weird. Maybe...

Erica: We're not gonna shame engineering enthusiasm here.

Alisa: That's true. Anyways, I find that relaxing so I could sit there and, like, mess with that for two hours and then come out and be like, you know, rejuvenated. It's all about just understanding what those things are for you. Cooking is another one for me. I really like cooking. So, um, I find, uh, finding new recipes looking online for different things and then trying em out. I find that to be really relaxing.

Erica: Yeah. I share your enthusiasm about cooking. That is definitely relaxing for me. And yet so many people I know, if I gave them a recipe to execute, they would not find that relaxing. That would be a stressor for them. Right? And maybe that's one of the challenging things right now that we're separated from each other and from our networks is that previously, if there was something that was really stressing me out that I wasn't very good at, I could sort of trade with somebody on that, I could say like, "Hey, can..." I could outsource it. I could either hire somebody to do it or I could barter, you know, um, and now that's becoming more and more difficult. So, there are things that we're having to do for ourselves, like cut our own hair, which is...

Alisa: Very difficult.  

Erica: Difficult. Yeah... And so  

Alisa: Or you could just do like me. I'm not cutting my hair and not dying my hair.

Erica: I'm growing out a pixie cut with hats, so...  

Alisa: We're good?  

Erica: Yeah. So that's the key, though, right? It's figuring out what you can let go of, and there are things that are, we just need to have some self-forgiveness, I think, and some self-compassion during this time. We won't get everything done and the stuff we do get done, it might not be perfect.

Alisa: Absolutely. I think not just during this time, though, like, right now, yes, especially important because everybody's under more chronic stress than normal, but I think also we are so hard. And we just in general, general, we, people are so hard on themselves and you're, you know, constantly trying to, you know, improve this, or do this, self-help book on this, you know, keeping up with the Joneses. Or you know what, whatever it is, the promotion at work. Um, we're very, people are just very hard on themselves. And we do need to, you know, give ourselves a break.

Erica: Yeah, maybe that's ah, that's some lessons we can carry through after this: hand washing and self-compassion. Two things we need to not stop doing when Corona virus passes.  

Alisa: Oh my gosh, I know, I totally... the amount of times that I wash my hands now! I think we should have been doing this before.  

Erica: Well yeah.  

Alisa: Um, that much... Um, but my hands are super dry now, but it's OK. Going to keep washing

Erica: Also need to moisturize... So, uh, we've talked about sort of recognition. We've talked about adding structure. What are some of the other tactics that you find are helpful with managing say chronic stress?

Alisa: I find that there's a, that there's certain folks that really rejuvenate me. Um, certain people that I've been friends with forever, I have really good relationships with. And, ah, when I talked to them, um, we totally get each other and, and we help each other. Um ah, lot of my friends... I moved around the world a lot and ah, a lot of my friends are very, uh, easy to, um just pick up the phone and you don't have to... Yeah, maybe I haven't talked to you in a year, but when we do talk, it's just like we, you know, saw each other yesterday, so that is really nice. And I do find that I have to... that having those relationships and having those trusted people and making time for those trusted people, um helps me calm down. It makes, it gives me perspective in a world that's going crazy. Um, because, you know, I care about them they care about me. We help each other. Just that. Just that emotional support I find really kind of, Earth... You know grounds me, um, and is helpful.  

Erica: Yeah, that raises a good point about support networks. I really feel right now for the people who... You know, you and I have both worked offshore, where for weeks on end you are on this kind of postage stamp of a facility you can't leave. The only way out is on a boat or a helicopter, and you're not with people that you chose to be with, you're with people that are your colleagues. And sometimes those colleagues are great, and you have great relationships. Sometimes not. Um, but regardless, they're not your loved ones, and you didn't choose to be with them. So right now, I really feel for people who are either, um isolated and don't have those connections or people who are quarantining with individuals who either they have not chosen to be with or, they've chosen it but it's not a healthy relationship. You know, we're seeing rates of domestic violence just skyrocket right now, and people that are quarantined with abusers. Um, so, for people who don't have an escape or don't have that external network, we want to encourage them to reach out to the resource is that are available. There are crisis lines. There are, there are help resources for those who maybe don't have somebody to talk to you. So, yeah. Thank you for sharing your insights with us today on, um, chronic stress in confined environments, and what that looks like, how to identify it, and maybe someone used to deal with it. Do you have any, kind of parting thoughts?

Alisa: I do have one other way that, um I handle stress in confinement. Um, and it's trying to gamify things.  

Erica: Yeah, I used to do that...  

Alisa: Yeah. I mean, I know there's a lot of people who aren't, you know, I mean, I'm confined by myself with two dogs, and, you know, I know other folks are with their, you know, spouses or their children or their you know, grandparents or their relatives. Some are with their coworkers offshore, there you know, there's all sorts of people that are confined? Yeah, all sorts of arrangements. But however you can, like, make, try to make something fun out of what you're doing. Even if you're making little games for your dogs like I'm doing, which cracks me up, I'm not sure they find it amusing.  

Erica: Yeah, I mean, it might be that doing the dishes is like your 100-point task for the day, you know, and giving yourself that reward - I think that's... that's important. Sometimes we just assume that doing the dishes or shampooing your hair today is it's just kind of table stakes. And in reality, maybe times are tough and like our, our whole schedule and cadence has kind of gone out the door. So just give yourself credit for those things, whether you do it in an Excel spreadsheet like I used to do. Maybe not for shampooing my hair, but, you know, like I used to give different activities different points, Um, or if you do it with stickers or gold stars or whatever it is, those little games can kind of ... 

Alisa: Make a difference  

Erica: Make the wins more visible and not get taken for granted. Yeah,  

Alisa: Absolutely  

Erica: So. So one kind of similarity I noticed, interested in your thoughts on, between offshore and this current situation is that it, it's been pretty disruptive to just sort of physiological cycles. You know, biological cycles, like sleeping, eating. We kind of can eat at any time. I don't know how often I've looked at the clock and been like. Oh, no, I've missed lunch entirely.  

Alisa: Or me where I need to social distance from the refrigerator because I have a snack every hour.

Erica: Yeah, or just sleeping. I know so many people with, um, sort of not getting as much sunlight have really had disruptions to their sleep. So they're their circadian rhythm gets thrown off. They're, like, staying up all night, sleeping all day or, um, or just not sleeping because they're stressed or they're sleeping too much because they have more flexibility in their schedule. They don't have somewhere to be. And that can really have an impact. So, um, do you have any advice on how you've handled that when you were offshore?

Alisa: Absolutely well, so the food thing I stayed I personally still struggle with cause I go to the refrigerator every hour or a snack. But offshore I didn't have that issue because we had set mealtimes. Um, in terms of the sleep pattern, though, I do find similarities between offshore and what's going on right now. I, um there you're getting up earlier. Working long hours. I would end up working out after, I'd, you know, after a workday. So, then I wasn't tired. And then I struggled to go to sleep, and then I had to get up earlier and that I was even more tired. Yeah. So, um, I you know what I would do is work out a little bit earlier, then eat dinner, and then try to do it. I did find screen time, looking at your phone or the TV or the computer right before you're gonna, right before you go to bed, I mean, they, lots of folks, you know, say that, but I definitely find that if I don't look at the screen before I go to bed, it's easier for me to go to sleep. I never could take any kind of Tylenol PM or anything like that offshore because you have to be alert. You wake up at 2 am. Exactly. So, I never did any of that. But I did find that at least if I shut my devices down If I start reading, um, you know, I'll read and then I'll usually end of falling asleep. And I've been doing the same thing here, right? Not watching TV. I mean, I watch TV, but then I'll go to bed and read a little bit. Don't go straight from TV to screen toe bed.

Erica: Yeah, I've had to set, like a "go to bed alarm" that just starts the process of going to bed.  

Alisa: Yeah, I've got one of those.  

Erica: I think sunlight for whoever can get some sunlight, even if you can't go outside for a walk, you know, just sitting by a window during lunch or just some way to get your brain to sync with the sunlight. And this is for people who are working day shift. Anyone who's working night shifts, somehow... that brings its own challenges. But there's SAD lights available, you know, these full spectrum lights are available. I have one of my office. So when I know I have to do early morning calls, I set the light and, um and that really helps me, but definitely putting some structure in. I think we take it for take it for granted sometimes until kind of schedule is all sorts of messed up. And that has an impact, you know, the sleep deprivation, the like, food... waiting till you're hangry until you finally, like, go get something to eat that can really take a toll as well. And it just amplifies those emotions.

Alisa: Yeah, I totally agree. I don't have a sun light. I uh, I've seen them before. Um, try one of those. I do find also, I just having lived in Alaska for so long, I, um, have now for the last couple of years, I take a lot of vitamin D. Um, even when, uh, yeah, I Even when I do get son, I still take vitamin D. I just find that I was deficient, definitely for the multiple years I was in Alaska. So now I, um, get a lot of benefit from that.

Erica: Vitamin D and vitamin B or the two that I, um, that I found really help me offshore, and I kind of have cut back on them right now, but, um, when I'm not getting enough sunlight I definitely think vitamin D, and vitamin B for me, were really helpful. So that kind of wraps our discussion on stress and chronic stress in confined environments. Is there anything else you wanted to share?

Alisa: Um, just to say thank you. This was very interesting. I've listened all your podcast so far. So, um, I know there's been four, and this is the fifth but very excited to see the future of the Two Piers podcasting and thanks for having me on, and I am just, I know this is crazy times in the world, and it's crazy times for everybody, and I do find that I just get randomly emotional. Um, and I imagine everybody else is going through that, too, so I know we're not going through that alone, um, and it's good to be able to talk about the things that we do to help us get through those times.

Erica: Well, thank you for being my first guest and for bearing with us as we sort out the technical challenges of doing this in the time of social distancing, um, so we appreciate it, and we can't wait to have you back for another podcast at some point in the future.  

Alisa: Fantastic. Thank you.  

Erica: Thanks. So, and as always, you can find us on the various social media platforms. So we're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Lincoln, and you can see what we're all about on our website at www.twopiersconsulting.com. So, if you think you could use support in your work environment or if your company is looking to improve diversity and inclusion, please reach out to us, schedule a free consultation and we'll be able to help you. And as far as the podcast goes, please leave us a rating. Leave us a review and tell us what you think or reach out directly. We'd love to get your feedback, so we'll see you back here shortly for the next podcast.